Judge says convicted molester can hunt

[Thin Black Line]

Sadly, the way our society has been marketing inappropriate items, most
notably clothing, to children and the pervasive use of sex in such advertising
is a subject for a different debate. This is a relatively recent phenomenom
in our society and many have stated, as will I, that it is part of a larger scheme
of social engineering. One thing I hope we all should know is that such
marketing and advertising would not have been acceptable in the past.
This also leads to a different debate about censorship which would intersect
with pornography. I suspect a certain amount of absolutism would pervade
that as well here.

Again, I would maintain that this convicted person be under a strict set of
rules. That he is living in his own home is light enough as it is. One of my
main questions would be how is he doing in treatment? BTW, did you know
that not everyone receives treatment? Guess what --it's due to program
space which boils down to cost.

I could care less about his hobby interests. Anyone here interested in how
his victim is doing? What long-term effects is she going to suffer as a
result of his actions?

We could talk about victims of sexual abuse/assault being more likely to abuse
drugs, suffer from PTSD, and commit suicide, but that would be reality slapping
the faces of those who believe

These days, a lot of 14 YO girls are very forward, and quite brazen.

wouldn't it?

 

[Thin Black Line]

Bouncing Betty tripped.....

Hey, MO, thanks for making my argument that similar living accomodations
for convicts and soldiers would not be inhumane punishment under
the Constitution of this country.

Likewise, if you're going to harken back to the past of our founding times,
or 10,000 years earlier, as a support for any of your future arguments, then
you would be in favor of using the village stocks again for those who
transgressed what was accepted as modest behavior for that time? After
all back in the Colonial days, the village would not have tolerated the groping
of unmarried females......

.......BOOM!

 

[Thin Black Line]

Not to bust your nuts, but your arguments have no bearing on what we're discussing.

Yeah, keep repeating that to yourself. Better yet :banghead:

 

[Thin Black Line]

Sigh......no, not my fingers.......however, I sense a mod will soon apply a
tourniquet to this thread.

 

[NineseveN]

Sigh......no, not my fingers.......however, I sense a mod will soon apply a
tourniquet to this thread.

I refer back to post # 74.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Well, it appears some poster clotting is beginning to take place instead.

I think one of the main stumbling blocks is this type of offender/crime. I
doubt many people here would have difficulty with saying the getaway
driver for an armed robbery or home invasion should have his access to
weapons remain restricted.

Whether it's a gang in which (some) members use weapons against unarmed
adults or an adult taking advantage of a child, the similarity is the position
of power and the weakness of the intended victim(s).

But, yes, nineseven, it would be good to back off of getting angry at
each and adjust fire to where it's needed.

 

[miko]

It would be an interesting tangental issue to debate that sentence. Suffice
to say "times were different" for a dispersed, decentralised, agrarian society
who had a very basic education to meet the skills required for jobs at that
time.

That’s not a correct picture of education in America of those times. The rates of literacy and level of literature read were considerably higher than those we have today.

Jefferson's daughter would be a good example…

That’s not a relevant example. In modern US women get married (if at all) later –on average in their early twenties. The educated women marry in their late twenties, early thirties. According to your logic, we might say that “times are different” and outlaw sex with women under 30. That would be quite silly.

....and look how our society is reversing itself over the gains
it made in the last 100 years.

Wrong. The society has been reversing for over 100 years the gains it has made in the previous few hundred - as the decisive shift or this country towards the corrupting socialism has really started with 1890s Progressives’ politics.

miko

 

[Joe Demko]

That’s not a correct picture of education in America of those times. The rates of literacy and level of literature read were considerably higher than those we have today.

Cite?

 

[Thin Black Line]

Cite?

+1.

 

[miko]

Pierre Samuel DuPont de Nemours (of those DuPonts) published in 1812 (at the request of his friend, Vice President Thomas Jefferson) a treatise “National Education in the United States”. He was simply amazed by rate of literacy and numeracy in the United States as compared to Europe. DuPont said that less then 4 people out of every thousand in the new nation could not read and do numbers well.

http://www.udel.edu/PR/duPontFamily/internal_pages/intro_index.html

According to Regna Lee Wood, Director of Statistical Research for The National Right to Read Foundation who wrote the article "That's Right – They're Wrong" National Review, 9/14/92

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n18_v44/ai_12777149
AFQT scores indicated that illiteracy (defined by the War Department as inability to read 4th-grade lessons, or today's 5th-grade lessons) among millions of prospective recruits with at least four years of schooling soared from almost zero [4/1000 !] during World War II to an unbelievable 17 percent during the Korean War

Now, the recruits in US undergo intelligence tests and those at or below borderline retarded are screened out, but I doubt that DuPont included retarded individuals into his estimate.
The 4/1000 number probably reflects the ratio or individuals with natural handicaps making literacy impossible.

Alexis de Tocqueville has also commented on high level of literacy in America – I am not close to my copy now but I believe he says somewhere that an American farmer tills his field with a plow in one hand and a book on philosophy in the other.


According to other sources (Richman, Sheldon. 1994. Separating School and State. Fairfax: Future of Freedom Foundation.), male literacy in America was estimated 60% in 1650! According to him, between 1800 and 1840, literacy in the Northern States increased from 75% to 90%, and in Southern States from 60% to 81%.
Massachusetts had alledgedely reached a level of 98% literacy in 1850 - before the state's compulsory education law of 1852.

I am not even sure today's 4th-grade reading level would have been considered literacy in those times:
Thomas Paine's Common Sense sold 120,000 copies to a population of three million—the equivalent of ten million copies in the 1990s. Noah Webster's Spelling Bee sold five million copies to a population of less than twenty million in 1818. Walter Scott's novels sold the same number between 1813 and 1823—the equivalent of sixty million copies in the 1990s. James Fenimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans also sold millions of copies. Scott and Cooper are certainly not written on today's fourth-grade level.

The culture of early US put high value on literacy – regardless of practical applicability and/or need of it for earning a living. That is not in itself special or exceptional – the colonies of Germans established in Russia on invitation of Russian Tsars by refugees of 30-year war devastation (1612-1642) has been 100% literate ever since, despite totally agrarian lifestyle. The emphasis on literacy regardless of practical application has been common to Germans and German Diaspora – see Thomas Sowell “Culture” trilogy for good info.

miko

 

[miko]

P.S. Have any of you read The Federalist papers? As false and subversive they are, they - and the "Anti-Federalist Papers" were published in newspapers - the mass-media of the time, not philosophical treatises.

The level of discourse in FP and even more so in AFP is simple amazing - we do not have anything even remotely close to that not only in mass media but even more exclusive publications intended for a general audience.
That gives some indication what people were reading then.

miko

 

[pictoblu]

Quote: Cite? +1.

+2

And I'd like to see a link to the original article.

If I missed it while scanning thru all the posts in this thread, disregard my request..

 

[ilbob]

I don't recall just where I read it, and I don't recall the exact numbers, but there is a federal government (I think) study from back in the 60s maybe that I read some highlights from one time.

I had always thought that literacy in America before the times of mandatory public schooling had to have been very high. It turns out that a very large percentage of Americans could read a bible, something that cannot easily be done without a reasonably high degree of reading ability.

spelling was very poor, but that was in large part because there was a lot of regional variability in spelling and many people did not consider it all that important.

Arithmetic skills were also pretty common, although much of it was basically 4 function type math. maybe 4th grade level was considered quite adequate.

The amazing thing is that a lot of these people somehow taught themselves. Others learned from the parents, and some in one room schools, although I got the impression that the one room schoolhouse was more of an anomaly than the norm.

I would caution that the military entrance test scores are probably not a reliable indicator between the two periods of time. The draft boards at the different times probably had different standards by which they chose to not send candidates off to war. WWII was pretty popular, as wars go, and there was not a lot of resistance to being drafted, so very poor candidates could be excused. The Korean War was far less popular, so I suspect the draft boards were more likely to send any warm body. But, I could be wrong. i don't have any hard data to back up such a suggestion.

 

[WickedXD]

<Insult removed by Art>

Well you want the truth? I believe people covicted of molesting kids should be shot! "Shall not be infringed" does not apply to to child molestors" I'm sure the Four Fathers would agree.

Anyone who agrees a child molestor should be allowed a gun...is either a child molestor himself or need serious phycalogical treatment!

 

[miko]

US military uses IQ tests to screen out the unsuitable candidates - and the treshhold is pretty low, basically borderline retarded. Such people are not expected to be literate in any case - even when they can read perfectly, they have trouble with reading comprehension.

The big problem with modern education system is the number of educatable children it fail.

miko

 

[WickedXD]

ohh your from Omaha....that explains it

 

[crunker]

Allowing the man to hunt would be okay, but I personally would not allow him to carry weapons on his person, or own small, concealable handguns at all.

 

[NineseveN]

Anyone who agrees a child molestor should be allowed a gun...is either a child molestor himself or need serious phycalogical treatment!

Please try not to make such silly statements, it hardly encourages civil discourse.

I won't bother making fun of the grammar, that's silly as well.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Looks like this is heading south again....

In any case:

male literacy in America

Exactly, white male literacy --mostly in the northern states. Speaking of
the South, white male literacy was lower. I guess we shouldn't even
bother bringing up women, African slaves, and the misnomered Indians
as part of the whole population of that time as compared to ours now? I
certainly wouldn't want to confuse anyone about populations and sampling.

Back to:

That’s not a relevant example.

How is stating a wealthy, educated man that we all know from the time
period having his daughter wait until an age that we in this day would
also consider an adult age for child bearning not be an example for
the merits of waiting a few years past the age of 14? My point was to
show that older ages are optimal from a practical point, not just a moral or
criminal one. The reason we have morals, ethics, laws, etc is to regulate
behaviors for the good of society. Again, times are, were, will be different.
I know that's a hard concept for most people living in the here and now
to comprehend.

One thing you and I will certainly agree upon is that literacy, reading
comprehension, and extrapolation of examples to make a point are all
different things. The second two become increasingly difficult for most
people.

I try to remain as concrete as possible in my writings here, but I admit
there are many times that my concepts require a certain amount of
abstract thought. I'll take full responsibility for that error on my part.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Heading" south? You're kidding, right?

This pasture is just way too full of meadow muffins, not to mention too many insults.

Art