cracked butt
Member
Overcrowded or not, who cares. I wouldn't even consider a prison to be overcrowded until they stack them up 8 to a cell. Prison should be a hellish place to go, not the adult equivalent to summer camp. 
Jessica's Body Found in Florida
- Thread starter Randall53
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jefnvk
Member
Are they all dangerous people? On another thread, I realized that I myself could be on the 'sexual predator' list, as public urination is an offense that will get you on there. Not to mention the 18-yr old guys that get caught having sex with their 17-yr old girlfriend.
And I am kinda distraught at the number of people advocating the prisoners with the longest sentence should simply be killed. What would you do if you got a year for a self-defense killing, and I came along saying 'anyone that is in here for killing someone, you line uo against the wall, the firing squad will be in in a second'. Those people were not sentenced to death by the court in their supposedly fair trial, why would you override that decision, because the jail is overcrowded.
Now that being said, I do believe that he should not have been out with a record like that, with time not being served.
carpettbaggerr
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Seems pretty cut and dried, WA. Unless he's psychic, or aliens told him where the body was, I'm pretty sure he did it.
It's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, not beyond any possible doubt.
thorn726
Member
there's someone who never watched Oz, or thought it was BS.
prison is no joke, crowded or not.
jail is a joke, i will give you that.
you guys as frustrated as me they let violent/ dangerous criminals out so fast???
stop the drug war, you'll have plenty of room.
PS= you want to keep piling themin there, better plan on paying more taxes.
aren't you all the same people who want to pay less taxes?
how do we jail these fools without pay for guards, walls, etc??
or maybe we should just do a trade, man when will you all learn.
WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION. you guys want us to keep the
"rkba" in there and throw the rest away it seems.
Cruel and Unusual punishement is for TYRANTS.
if you dont think stacking 8 men in a one toilet, 8x6 cell is not cruel or unusual, well i would like to stick you in there and let you re evaluate.
prison as it is is borderline cruel and unusual. the amount of rapes, beatings, gang activity, murders happening in prison is astonishing.
prisons turn soft idiots who made mistakes into hardened life long violent freaks.
it sohuld be reserved for fools like the guy in article who really deserve it, people we really should not have to deal with in public.
free the stupid drug prisoners ., most of which did very little but screw themselves, and IMPRison the REal criminals for good
Jake
Member
Here's a idea on the money issue for prisons. Forfeiture of assets. For inmates that are sentenced to long prison terms seize any assets they hold in order to finance their prison stays.
Pick a set length of sentence, say anything greater then 10 or more years, and seize all cash, cars, house etc. Auction it off and use any money left after paying off outstanding debts on the seized property to pay for prison costs. In a case of the inmate having a family left behind split all assets 50\50 the way it "should" be done in a divorce and seize half.
Pick a set length of sentence, say anything greater then 10 or more years, and seize all cash, cars, house etc. Auction it off and use any money left after paying off outstanding debts on the seized property to pay for prison costs. In a case of the inmate having a family left behind split all assets 50\50 the way it "should" be done in a divorce and seize half.
Wildalaska
member
OK understand, Im not defending the guy, Im sure he will be treied and convicted.
But he gets convicted in a court of law, not on the internet and in the newspapers.
Cant you think of situations where everyone thought a person should be hung and then it turned out the opposite. Are you sure beyond a reasonable doubt, that this guy led em toi the body...how bout this scenario...the cops found the body, and under pressure to "get" someone, picked up this loser who lived close to where the body was found, beat him into confessing and made their announcemet?
Happened that way...doubt it..chance of it being that way..of course....stuff like that happened before...absoulutely..
Some of the same folks howling hang em would give the benefit of the doubt, however, to a person picke dup on a gun charge, especially if he is a "patriot"
My only message......try em in a court, not the media, before ya hang em.
PS
Truer words were never spoken...thats a consistency on this Board...
WildlookcarefullyatsomefolkspostsAlaska
thorn726
Member
only two problems with that=
first, vast majority of prisoners HAVE NO ASSESTS.
two- the few that have huge assets, their money is already forfeit generally.
ps, convicts are generally already sentenced to fines and restituition of court costs, but it doenst cover it. plus, working in prison gets super super low wages, they cant work enough to pay for it.
and hard labor cmaps start fallngi in to the cruel and unusul category again./.
PS=
Wildalaska= THanks!!! glad i am not the only one to notice the lopsided constitutionality of this board
The "Hard Labor" or "Chain Gang" idea has not been thrown out by the courts for being Cruel and Unusual so much as the states. Three guesses as to why....ok it's MONEY...again.
People don't think about it but you need way more guards ($$$) to move and secure working inmates than just letting them zone out in thier own "secure" relativly weapon free cell blocks watching cable TV. I will say as a minor point of defense to the cable TV thing, at least in our state the inamtes pay for it, and losing access to it is one of the few punishments allowed.
Guards tend to love inmates to have at least some priviliges just because it gives them some leverage to use on trouble makers. First time an inmate whacks a new guard upside the head and laughs saying "what you gonna do throw me in prison?" they tend to understand this. And yeah I know the "I'd teach them! I'd.....". Bull. Your outnumbered 40 to one in the yard and even if you did you wuld just be giiving the thug exactly what he wanted in a multimillion dollar lawsuit award. Oh and he would be laughing at you as you took his place in the cell block six months later.
No easy answers.
People don't think about it but you need way more guards ($$$) to move and secure working inmates than just letting them zone out in thier own "secure" relativly weapon free cell blocks watching cable TV. I will say as a minor point of defense to the cable TV thing, at least in our state the inamtes pay for it, and losing access to it is one of the few punishments allowed.
Guards tend to love inmates to have at least some priviliges just because it gives them some leverage to use on trouble makers. First time an inmate whacks a new guard upside the head and laughs saying "what you gonna do throw me in prison?" they tend to understand this. And yeah I know the "I'd teach them! I'd.....". Bull. Your outnumbered 40 to one in the yard and even if you did you wuld just be giiving the thug exactly what he wanted in a multimillion dollar lawsuit award. Oh and he would be laughing at you as you took his place in the cell block six months later.
No easy answers.
Priorities???
Soemone's going to have to come up with a much better argument than simple "underfunding" to explain this one away. Yes, we have plenty of time to assign agents to investigate and arrest paperwork criminals who might be fixin' to do something with a threaded barrel, or a sawed off whatever. Pot smokers? throw away the key! Sexual predators, with a history? Sorry, the jails are too full, must parole them, lack of funds...I don't buy this for a minute! Makes me sick to my stomach.
Soemone's going to have to come up with a much better argument than simple "underfunding" to explain this one away. Yes, we have plenty of time to assign agents to investigate and arrest paperwork criminals who might be fixin' to do something with a threaded barrel, or a sawed off whatever. Pot smokers? throw away the key! Sexual predators, with a history? Sorry, the jails are too full, must parole them, lack of funds...I don't buy this for a minute! Makes me sick to my stomach.
I agree with Blueduck, you have to have the inmates be able to at least earn some privilages. It's a useful tool for guards to keep inmates under control.
Criminals tend to use drugs, just like they tend to like to carry weapons around.
Drug user's don't have to be criminals (just look at people who use tobacco and alchohol).
I think that if you legalized a select number of drugs, you're reduce the demand for many of the others. For example, I believe that Meth & huffing are mostly a result of the illegalization of safer(no, not safe, but safer) alternatives. Would as many people do meth, if marijuanna, heroin, and cocaine were legal?
And remember, many of these drugs, cocaine, opium, etc, have been around for centuries. They weren't a huge problem early in the century. Yes, a certain amount of the lack of trouble was due to cost and the drugs being less refined on average.
Criminals tend to use drugs, just like they tend to like to carry weapons around.
Drug user's don't have to be criminals (just look at people who use tobacco and alchohol).
I think that if you legalized a select number of drugs, you're reduce the demand for many of the others. For example, I believe that Meth & huffing are mostly a result of the illegalization of safer(no, not safe, but safer) alternatives. Would as many people do meth, if marijuanna, heroin, and cocaine were legal?
And remember, many of these drugs, cocaine, opium, etc, have been around for centuries. They weren't a huge problem early in the century. Yes, a certain amount of the lack of trouble was due to cost and the drugs being less refined on average.
Pilgrim
Member
Being cautious, I would say that 95% of the people in prison had public defenders. Does that tell you anything about their assets?
I base that estimate on my time as a bailiff in municipal court.
Pilgrim
hammer4nc,
I agree.
I think most of the differences where a weed grower ends up with a harsher sentence than the sexual predator is that the crimes occur within different districts, and that horrible practice of "mandatory sentences".
For example, the guy who was convicted of "dealing" in pain meds just because of the quantity he received on his forged prescriptions. One refill was enough to trip their 'dealing' standards, which was simply a thirty day supply for him. I think that it was especially sad that they ended up having to find a pain doctor for him, who ended up putting a morphine drip into his spine.
This guy is going to prison, and getting more powerful pain treatments than he was getting outside of jail/prison? What sense does that make?
I agree.
I think most of the differences where a weed grower ends up with a harsher sentence than the sexual predator is that the crimes occur within different districts, and that horrible practice of "mandatory sentences".
For example, the guy who was convicted of "dealing" in pain meds just because of the quantity he received on his forged prescriptions. One refill was enough to trip their 'dealing' standards, which was simply a thirty day supply for him. I think that it was especially sad that they ended up having to find a pain doctor for him, who ended up putting a morphine drip into his spine.
This guy is going to prison, and getting more powerful pain treatments than he was getting outside of jail/prison? What sense does that make?
Lil38
Member
RyanM, jefnvk
Was I too vague or did you not read my entire post? I said that the registry should be more specific. ( rapist, public urinator etc.) I also said looking at the photos of the 33 on the list for my zip, none appeared very young. I could be wrong, can't go by looks alone. And I know that doesn't make them all vermin. If a GIRL looks older and lies about her age, well, then that's different circumstances. Certainly there are exceptions to nearly every rule. IMO if a man is considered to be an adult at the age of 18, and his GF is only 16, doesn't seem like a big deal. I also think the age difference should be considered when both parties are teens. However, I just think a man approaching his 30's has no business with a GIRL that is under 18. Although I know some teens that are more mature than some adults, doesn't make it right. IMHO she is not yet a woman. As adults, the age difference becomes irrelevant. Nothing wrong with a 30 yr old and a 40 yr old. Does seem a stretch when the age diff is say 20 yrs, but as consenting ADULTS- it's legal. Just my .02
Was I too vague or did you not read my entire post? I said that the registry should be more specific. ( rapist, public urinator etc.) I also said looking at the photos of the 33 on the list for my zip, none appeared very young. I could be wrong, can't go by looks alone. And I know that doesn't make them all vermin. If a GIRL looks older and lies about her age, well, then that's different circumstances. Certainly there are exceptions to nearly every rule. IMO if a man is considered to be an adult at the age of 18, and his GF is only 16, doesn't seem like a big deal. I also think the age difference should be considered when both parties are teens. However, I just think a man approaching his 30's has no business with a GIRL that is under 18. Although I know some teens that are more mature than some adults, doesn't make it right. IMHO she is not yet a woman. As adults, the age difference becomes irrelevant. Nothing wrong with a 30 yr old and a 40 yr old. Does seem a stretch when the age diff is say 20 yrs, but as consenting ADULTS- it's legal. Just my .02
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
I've got some different viewpoints than most of you folks. I don't agree with capital punishment. Not out of any feeling of compassion or brotherly love for the lowlife scumbag murderer but simply this: OK, he's innocent. We've executed him. Who's responsibile for this? We need to execute them. You see, I beilieve in personal responsibility even if you work for the justice system. I would much prefer to see more offenders executed by their intended victims.
Prison overcrowding. I think an exhaustive survey should be made of our felony laws on both the state and federal levels between 1899 and the present. They seemed to have many less felonies on the books than we do now. Many historieans consider 1890 till 1915 to be the ulitimate point of civilized behavior in America.
Non-violent crime? No jail time. A saw horse, four pieces of rope, and a bamboo shinai. Tie your ankles to the legs on one side and your wrists to the legs on the other side. Pull you clothes down to your ankles and then have a well muscled individual turn your buttocks into so much raw hamburgers. Kindly tell him or her that the state has more bamboo, saw horses, and rope than they have butt.
Prisions? Tents in the desert. What was constitutional for troops during their duty in WWII is constitutional for you excuses for men. That knee high wire? That's the boundary fence. The mine field begins on the other side of it. It goes for ten miles. There's offices scattered about at the end. They'll give you a pardon if you make it to them. No one ever has and they're real bored. Go ahead and try. We're trying to pass the 10,000 mark this year. It's 0 to 5,371 right now. Good behavior? We don't care how you behave. Have contests. Choose sides. Throw the guys on the other side across the wire. You see, you're here for life. You decided to be violent and slap that fool. Maybe you were a tad smarter and got the fool provoked enough to slap you. Yeah, things are crowded right now but that will change as we cleanse the gene pool.
Prison overcrowding. I think an exhaustive survey should be made of our felony laws on both the state and federal levels between 1899 and the present. They seemed to have many less felonies on the books than we do now. Many historieans consider 1890 till 1915 to be the ulitimate point of civilized behavior in America.
Non-violent crime? No jail time. A saw horse, four pieces of rope, and a bamboo shinai. Tie your ankles to the legs on one side and your wrists to the legs on the other side. Pull you clothes down to your ankles and then have a well muscled individual turn your buttocks into so much raw hamburgers. Kindly tell him or her that the state has more bamboo, saw horses, and rope than they have butt.
Prisions? Tents in the desert. What was constitutional for troops during their duty in WWII is constitutional for you excuses for men. That knee high wire? That's the boundary fence. The mine field begins on the other side of it. It goes for ten miles. There's offices scattered about at the end. They'll give you a pardon if you make it to them. No one ever has and they're real bored. Go ahead and try. We're trying to pass the 10,000 mark this year. It's 0 to 5,371 right now. Good behavior? We don't care how you behave. Have contests. Choose sides. Throw the guys on the other side across the wire. You see, you're here for life. You decided to be violent and slap that fool. Maybe you were a tad smarter and got the fool provoked enough to slap you. Yeah, things are crowded right now but that will change as we cleanse the gene pool.
......havin' a tough time tryin' to understand what you're tryin' to say, Byron......"OK, he's innocent. We've executed him".??????? "intended" victims????? they're not victims 'til they're victims, an "offense" must be committed. Unless you're talking about that Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report"; where even THEY threw out convicting someone for crimes yet to be committed......and this "exhaustive survey"....of what? for what purpose? and funding by who? Otherwise, that 2nd paragraph was revealing. After that, you lost me....."tents in the desert"??? In Ohio? or Pennsylvania? or Rhode Island, Virginia, Alabama....please, keep YOUR prisoners in YOUR state! WE DON'T WANT 'EM, either!!!!!!!(nv) (Most people 'round here even hate the feds for trying to ramrod Yucca Mt on us!!!!!) So, 'splain it to me again, please; plain English?????
cracked butt
Member
I'm sorry but if a man commits unspeakable acts to then murders a child, what punishment do you find objectionable as being cruel and unusual? No private use of the potty? No cable TV? Having to sleep in the same cell as a couple other guys, maybe even on a concrete floor? Cry me a fricken river for these scumbags. If you want to see cruel and unusual punishment, put a child murderer or rapist is a windowless room with a family member of the victim's who is armed with an axe.
Hell we have a shiny new Supermax prison in my state that is pretty much unoccupied reason being is that blissninnies across the country think that strict confinement of the worst animals in the prison system is cruel and unusual.
The guy who goes to the pen for selling a little pot certainly doesn't deserve such treatment, and I'm not advocating such treatment for 'soft' offenders, only for the ones who have committed heinous crimes and can never be released.
I disagree with most(?) people; what I said at the falfiles was basically the law should be changed......(and I NEVER use the word "should"!). Unless "forgiven" by the victim's immediate family (in which case there would be a "default" punishment), upon conviction the (sub-human Monster) criminal's fate is to be determined by said immediate family.....NO holds barred!!!!! Execution may be cheap, and quick, which is why I object to it......some form of long and painful existence must be endured; serving as a STRONG deterrant and allowing for closure......AND, to be economical, ALL these Monsters might be held in a central(national) location. WOE be to them, the deserving; may the Will and Wrath of God descend upon them!!!!
(THAT'S my story, 'n I'm stickin' to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(THAT'S my story, 'n I'm stickin' to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
jefnvk
Member
But now you are getting into morals. What your standards are are not the same as mine. I am not saying that I disagree with above, but what some cultures consider to be an evil deed, others will not bash an eye at. How long ago was it that girls in their teens were married and had a family?
And I have been known to skip a line or two in posts before. Or copy something, and spend a few minuets reading, then comment on that quote completely having forgot the context it was in.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i wonder just how many men there are who don't know they are dating a child that appears to be an adult?
if by 'looks considerably older', you are referring to the effects of puberty, then you are obviously focusing only on one thing. a little girl that has the body of an adult still has the face of a little girl.
if you had a daughter that looked 22 at age 13, what would you do to the guy who tries to date her?
matis
Member
Quote:
But he gets convicted in a court of law, not on the internet and in the newspapers.
My only message......try em in a court, not the media, before ya hang em.
__________________________________________________________________
That's all great, WildAlaska.
But this guy WAS tried and convicted in court -- many times.
Trouble is they let him out after serving only 2 years of a 10 year term.
And why do they publish lists of sexual predators?
Is it because they know that these are dangerous and very likely to prey on children, again?
I agree that we would not have overcrowded prisons if we decriminalized drugs. But, regardless, if we release sexual predators we know cannot be cured, something is drastically -- fatally for the little girl--wrong.
This happens over and over again. Over and over again, parents go through this anguish and children suffer and die.
Personally, I'd sentence those who commit this crime to death.
Even if the corrupt system -- twisted liberal compassion to the cruel, combined with a corrupt legal system (makes lots of work for lawyers, doesn't it?) -- he'd at least be off the streets.
I have a daughter. If that father resorted to vigilante justice, I'd organize to raise money for his legal defence.
Kindness to the wicked is cruelty to the just. Or: Those who begin by being kind to the cruel end by being cruel to the kind. (Talmud)
matis
But he gets convicted in a court of law, not on the internet and in the newspapers.
My only message......try em in a court, not the media, before ya hang em.
__________________________________________________________________
That's all great, WildAlaska.
But this guy WAS tried and convicted in court -- many times.
Trouble is they let him out after serving only 2 years of a 10 year term.
And why do they publish lists of sexual predators?
Is it because they know that these are dangerous and very likely to prey on children, again?
I agree that we would not have overcrowded prisons if we decriminalized drugs. But, regardless, if we release sexual predators we know cannot be cured, something is drastically -- fatally for the little girl--wrong.
This happens over and over again. Over and over again, parents go through this anguish and children suffer and die.
Personally, I'd sentence those who commit this crime to death.
Even if the corrupt system -- twisted liberal compassion to the cruel, combined with a corrupt legal system (makes lots of work for lawyers, doesn't it?) -- he'd at least be off the streets.
I have a daughter. If that father resorted to vigilante justice, I'd organize to raise money for his legal defence.
Kindness to the wicked is cruelty to the just. Or: Those who begin by being kind to the cruel end by being cruel to the kind. (Talmud)
matis
This pernicious misinformation never seems to go away.jeffnvk said:
There is no general principle in the U.S. that adults cannot have sex with minors. All states have an age of consent, often 16, sometimes 17 or 18. Furthermore, in some states a 17yo can have sex with a 15yo even if the age of consent is 16 or 17, due to an age differential exception.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Another poster boy for parole and probation gets his name and mug in the papers.
The little girl is already largely forgotten. No one will remember her name a month from now.
The little girl is already largely forgotten. No one will remember her name a month from now.
Wildalaska
member
So? In no jurisdiction in the US that I am aware of are prior bad acts or criminal convictions admissable to prove a prediction for crime.....
And...your point is....???That the CJS is all screwed up??...duh-uh..ya think no one agrees with that?....so what...got nothing to do with my point
For the same politically correct reason ya cant buy a gun if you have a DV conviction....
WildnothingtodowithmypointAlaska
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