Jewelry Store is being robbed, good citizen with a gun jumps in, innocent man dies

[Alex Clayton]

Yep. It also hurts and kills innocent people.

Under the bus with 'em

YEP! The media just loves it when a gun owner does something stupid, as this guy did. They will shout it from the roof top to try to say this is why we need more laws. To make it worse you see other gun owners turning themselves inside out making excuses for the stupidity. You see it in this thread with the red herrings because people want to one day pull their gun and be hero. Sadly when some CC does try to intervene in a crime it will of course not work like it does on TV or like it did in their fantasy. I carry a gun to protect my life if needed. If I see some store or such being robbed? It's not my problem UNLESS, it looks like they want to harm me or mine. If it looks like they want to take stuff and run? Great, run. People throwing red herrings at this are just making it worse by telling others to make the same VERY poor choices this guy did.

 

[Howland937]

Would this situation be entirely different if the would-be hero didn't have a gun, and only followed the getaway vehicle? It would be different, up to the point where he causes an accident. Whether with his own vehicle or the thieves vehicle that results in the injury or death of a bystander, he would be liable.

ETA... I guess my point is, there are situations I'd prefer to avoid. I carry in the event one of those situations becomes unavoidable. I'm not predisposed to inject myself into one of those situations just because I have a gun.

 

[Kleanbore]

Would this situation be entirely different if the would-be hero didn't have a gun, and only followed the getaway vehicle? It would be different, up to the point where he causes an accident. Whether with his own vehicle or the thieves vehicle that results in the injury or death of a bystander, he would be liable.

Were he to cause a motor vehicle 'accident' that resulted in injury or death, there would be liability.

That would be trie whether or not he had been following robbers.

 

[Howland937]

Were he to cause a motor vehicle 'accident' that resulted in injury or death, there would be liability.

That would be trie whether or not he had been following robbers.

Truly. I suppose I was looking only at the negligence of his actions.

 

[fastbolt]

...
So we really like it when a 'good guy with a gun' does something that turns out well, but if it turns out badly, we throw them under the bus.

If a "good guy with a gun" does something outright unlawful with a gun, or simply reckless, irresponsible and negligent a gun ... he's no longer quite so much a "good guy with a gun" in that instance.

 

[DT Guy]

It bears repeating; you don't shoot someone to protect stuff, only to stop someone who is trying to kill you or someone else (if you choose.)

With two armed guys getting ready to leave the store, he initiated a gunfight from what was a robbery. Regardless of your opinion of whether he was 'right' to do so, it was tactically unsound.

Larry

 

[Kleanbore]

I suppose I was looking only at the negligence of his actions.

...which would have nothing to do with following robbers.

 

[Craig_AR]

Happened in 2017 in San Antonio. The video that’s been released shows the armed citizen rushing in and opening fire on the robbers. The robbers return fire and an innocent customer is killed.

A few years ago I asked a bank branch manager why they had the no guns sign on the door. His answer was essentially that they wanted to avoid just such a scenario as this one.

Supporting several posts in this thread, in Branca's LoSD videos he repeatedly says he carries to protect himself and family, only. If others want similar protection they have the option of carrying, too. He also repeatedly says deadly force (gun use) is only for protecting people from death and serious bodily harm, not for property.

 

[Howland937]

...which would have nothing to do with following robbers.

If it was determined that the pursuit of the robbers was a direct cause of the accident, I believe it would have a lot to do with it.

 

[Kleanbore]

If it was determined that the pursuit of the robbers was a direct cause of the accident,

How could where he was going be seen as a direct cause?

You did say "followed".

You also said "accident"--accidents and negligent acts are different things.

 

[Drail]

I am astounded that the Marine's wife actually believes that this would have been prevented if the mall had only posted "NO GUN" signs.

 

[Kleanbore]

I am astounded that the Marine's wife actually believes that this would have been prevented if the mall had only posted "NO GUN" signs.

I seriously doubt that she does.

 

[Jeff White]

I am astounded that the Marine's wife actually believes that this would have been prevented if the mall had only posted "NO GUN" signs.

I'm sure the belief stems from the deep pockets of the mall owner.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I can't really fault a recent widow for anything she says after such an event.

 

[Mark39]

The original TX LTC classes were supposed to discourage you from such antics. Then the class was shortened. I don't know if they still have the emphasis on avoidance that they had originally. In class, you always had some yahoo who wanted permission to shoot someone.

It still does. The emphasis is on avoiding confrontations in the first place and use of non-lethal force to resolve whenever possible. Drawing a weapon is to be done only as a last resort when your own life or your family member's life is threatened.

 

[GEM]

I am astounded that the Marine's wife actually believes that this would have been prevented if the mall had only posted "NO GUN" signs.

Probably an attorney approached her for seemingly easy money of which he will get a large percentage. The idea is a settlement with a non-disclosure.

 

[Mark39]

A few years ago I asked a bank branch manager why they had the no guns sign on the door. His answer was essentially that they wanted to avoid just such a scenario as this one.

Bank owners want the robber to take the money and leave as quickly as possible without any confrontation. The focus is on observation and capturing evidence for an easy prosecution later. Bank robbing is a short career.