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Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc.

Discussion in 'Activism Discussion and Planning' started by Cavalier Knight, Aug 31, 2007.

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  1. Cavalier Knight

    Cavalier Knight Member

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    For the record I am African American and posted this to be informational please review the article and draw your own conclusions. Thank you. This was posted on their site FYI please review. http://www.jpfo.org/

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2007
  2. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    I find the image offensive as hell. I understand sarcasm and irony. I understand the JPFO's position, and I still find this course of action (Repudiate and Humiliate) objectionable when compared to Oleg Volks.
    The image and JPFO's direction will be taken out of context and used against gun owners by strident anti-rights activists and no amount of explaination or rationalizing will bring fence sitters over to a pro-rights position when they see that image. (I could be wrong... but I am offended none the less)

    I'd ask a mod to consider editing the image out (I can't believe I'm writing this) or locking this thread (which embarasses me to consider, let alone type).
    I apologize MrReynolds, perhaps I just should have remained silent... but I could not.
     
  3. LSCurrier

    LSCurrier Member

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    I am not African American and I find this offensive also. They could have gotten their point across by using another way whithout crossing the line.

    However, let me also state that I am no fan of Mr. Jackson. Every group of people has some number within the group who are bad representatives of the group and Mr. Jackson is such for African Americans.

    Luke
     
  4. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    MrReynolds,
    OK... Now, knowing a bit more about you (for some, skin color and ethnicity is very important, for others, it's a fact of life to be dealt with as need be) the whole cast/slant of the thread changes... but the image is, while shocking... good Lord, it's just so wrong in America today! To me and my way of thinking at least.

    Taking the Low Road can certainly get one's attention, and the Jews in the JPFO, like black and native Americans, have some history behind them that warrants never forgetting the past. Being armed, responsible and ever watchful of government and private policies which enable race or religion to be denigrated with casual nonchalance or outright animosity remains paramount to freedom, as it should be to all people.

    So... in a way, thanks for posting this thread, even if I find the image distasteful... it does spark strong sentiment, albeit in poor taste.
     
  5. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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  6. 30 cal slob

    30 cal slob Member

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    GUYS-

    READ THE WHOLE PAGE.

    APPARENTLY THE "N_____ HUNTING LICENSE" WAS ATF'S IDEA.

    Congressional Testimony ... Sen. Orrin Hatch.

    This is NOT JPFO's idea.

    Linky here:

    http://www.jpfo.org/batfegobrqa.txt
     
  7. tinygnat219

    tinygnat219 Member

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    THIS is why I do not belong to groups like the JPFO. They tend to be a little too over the top for me and don't do a lot of good for the image of gun-owners.

    When we are recruiting to increase our numbers, over the top images will often push fence-sitters away, and will sometimes put them into the camps of the antis.

    We already have a huge uphill fight, let's not attach a boulder to the trailer hitch to slow us down even further.
     
  8. M_Olson

    M_Olson Member

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    i dont believe in getting offended, especially over silly stuff like race. but this can definitely be taken out of context, and bring a lot of heat onto the jpfo and possibly even this forum. i wish it were not the case that we have to be so careful and scared of having things taken out of context and used against us, but that is the reality.
     
  9. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    The JPFO's problem is that they don't understand information design.

    Yes, the thing is offensive as hell, but they don't make it IMMEDIATELY clear, at a glance, that it was the ATF that was handing them out.

    Instead it looks like the offensive item is THEIRS.

    That message is hamfisted, awkward, amateurish, and it backfired.

    I'm not even sure the JPFO understands this.
     
  10. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    As geekWithA.45 pointed out, the JPFO really screwed up in how they presented this.

    There's a lot of "translation" needed so that everyone understands what the offending handout is all about and that destroys it effectiveness and hurts the JPFO and our cause.


    The "hunting license" is supposedly a wretched piece of trash found at some gun shows that was handed out at the "Good Ol' Boys Roundup".

    The "Good Ol' Boys" in the handout is a reference to the controversial Good Ol' Boys Roundup. This is an informal gathering of federal agents, primarily BATFE, that has had substantial accusations of outrageous racist and sexist behavior going on at the events.

    The JPFO fell down with this by using references to groups and events that people are not commonly familiar with. If everyone had known about the controversy around the Good Ol' Boys Roundup the irony and absurdity of Rev. Jackson preaching that the government should be the only entity trusted with firearms might, "might", have been effective. But because of the obscure nature of the group, the repugnance for the "hunting license" will be associated with the JPFO and not the ATF agents at the Good Ol' Boys Roundup. This is a prime example of how someone so deep into the "movement" looses touch with the folks they're trying to recruit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2007
  11. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Well, thanks for the heads up everyone. I'll learn someday to look before I leap. But my Dad used to say that the only time I opened my mouth was to change my feet.
     
  12. jonnyc

    jonnyc Member

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    There is NO way that imagery is the product of the JPFO.
     
  13. KMKeller

    KMKeller Member

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    Sorry folks, but any nitwit who takes a moment to read that page will see the references to who really owns the creation of that document. I read it once and caught all the references.
     
  14. foghornl

    foghornl Member

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    Briefly, I do not care for Rev. Jackson and his ahhhhhh antics***

    However, that hunting license thing offends me....and I am very much a 50+ year old male W.A.S.P.

    W hite
    A nglo-
    S axon
    P rotestant


    ***attempting to at least stay on The Middle Road
     
  15. Hawk

    Hawk Member

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    Perhaps a little bit from the other side (DOJ Office of the Inspector General) might be of interest:

    http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/9603/

    That such a "hunting license" existed is pretty certain. That it was brought into the "roundup" by an agent of the BATFe is less certain. Expanding that to it being actually printed by ATF, IMHO, is wild conjecture.

    Of course, similar leaps of faith and tortured logic are commonly employed by our adversaries. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard, but sometimes I wonder...

    I'm beginning to wonder if some "shock jock" stuff might have a place. I've not participated in any of the threads here about "over the top stuff" but I noted with interest a comment posted by one of the moderators at the sister forum in a Ted Nugent thread:

    In a similar vein, Clayton Cramer has a substantial body of work on the racist origins of gun control laws but it's little known outside our community. Some would say it's dry as dust. However, when Kenn Blanchard is speaking on the same topic, it seems to me to have a wider audience. That's my perception only but I would submit it isn't totally outlandish.

    I wonder if JPFO's tactics will make any additional people aware of where these laws originally came from. I believe they've misrepresented ATF's connection with the offensive image but Sarah keeps implying the NRA was founded by the KKK.

    Color me conflicted.
     
  16. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I don't think it's a "tactic".

    I think it's amateur blundering.

    And considering that our opponents spend millions of dollars a year and can afford professionally designed and produced marketing materials, we can't afford amateur blundering.

    See the last line of my sig:

    .
     
  17. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    Why is it everytime some offensive thing with the word ****** printed on it its a national catastrophe, but everyone can talk about killing rich white crackers and that violent crime is o.k. as long as it isn't black on black. Thats all i'm going to say. :scrutiny:
     
  18. Blackfork

    Blackfork Member

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    I'm with the geek.

    I agree that it was totally outrageous of the ATF to do this, but the presentation by the JFPFO is very poor.

    Be smart.
     
  19. Hawk

    Hawk Member

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    Amateur blundering was the best the piece could aspire to, unless I'm very much mistaken that the ATF connection never made it past an allegation. Better to have simply not gone there.

    But it's done. Not much to do now but watch.
     
  20. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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    Poorly thought out and even more poorly executed ideas like this are the reason the JPFO will never be taken seriously regarding anything for which they are trying to push.

    Even in context, their attempts to stick it to the ATF just look childish and silly.
    Out of context, it's just offensive.
     
  21. cnorman18

    cnorman18 Member

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    Mrreynolds posted that image to call attention to blatant bigotry.

    That is the SAME reason it was posted by the JFPO.

    Their site could not have made that more clear.

    Either mrreynolds was not paying attention, or this was a nasty little attempt to smear Jews.

    The Black community and the Civil Rights movement have had no better or more dedicated friends than American Jews.

    The NAACP was originally founded and financed by Jews.

    When Dr. Martin Luther King marched, prominent rabbis often marched at his side, including the late Abraham Joshua Heschel.

    When three civil rights workers were murdered in Philadelphia, Mississippi, in 1964, two of them were Jewish men from New York.

    And so on.

    It has only been in very recent years that some in the Black community have come to regard Jews as the enemy, notably the unstable fanatic quasi-Muslim leader Louis Farrakhan and his openly anti-Semitic cronies. This is a tragedy--but to this day, that enmity and hatred has never been returned by the Jewish community.

    On the contrary: the Anti-Defamation League, the most prominent and proactive anti-bigotry organization in the U.S. and probably the world, continues to monitor instances of anti-Black racism as aggressively as it does anti-Semitism and every other form of prejudice.

    That some of you were so ready to believe that this filth came from the JFPO is very disappointing to me.

    No one on Earth knows better the vulnerability of a disarmed people than the Jews--or knows better the evils of bigotry and hatred. There are no people more dedicated to the cause of liberty and individual freedom than the Jews. The very idea of a "Jewish people" began with the Exodus from Egyptian slavery, and the "festival of freedom" is still celebrated every year at Passover.

    Before you ask: Yes, I am Jewish. 30 years ago I was a Methodist minister; I converted to Judaism at the age of 50.

    I found this thread offensive, too--but for an entirely different reason.

    "Draw your own conclusions," indeed.
     
  22. SaMx

    SaMx Member

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    No attempt to smear Jews here. Just a really poorly designed webpage from the JPFO.
     
  23. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I'd like to see whether or not mrreynolds has anything to add. It would appear that he misread the JPFO's effort. He certainly didn't reproduce the entire commentary, to show that it was an alleged BATF "license".

    Art
     
  24. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Folks, let's focus on how the JPFO screwed up with this handout and not on the race thing. The point of Activism Discussion is to go over the details of what might and might not work in the struggle with gun prohibitionists.

    JPFO's handout fails to get it's message across. The message being that it's hypocritical and ironic that Rev. Jackson would promote the idea that Government is the only entity that can be trusted with firearms when the very government agency primarily responsible for regulating firearms is the very agency with this enormous controversy attached to it due to the "Good Ol' Boys Roundup" and it's racist overtones and the racist "hunting license". The problem is that the the average person doesn't remember anything about the Good Ol' Boys Roundup and JPFO's failure to put it in caps makes the average reader just think it's a phrase instead of a group identifier.

    Worse yet, it creates a controversy of it's own about Black/Jew racism by not clearly communicating it's message and in the process opens the organization up to questions of racism from folks that don't bother to read completely.

    That's how bad this bit of propaganda is. Not only did it fail to get it's message across it blows up in the JPFO's face by causing some to call the JPFO itself into question.

    So, let's try to focus on the purpose of AD and figure out what we can learn from this abysmal failure from the JPFO.

    First, they should have capitalized the letters so that good ol' boys became Good Ol' Boys and they should have added "Roundup".

    Second, they should have risked being wordy by reminding people of the Good Ol' Boys Roundup controversy.

    Third, they should have minimized the hunting license and identified it as having been handed out at the Good Ol' Boys Roundup.

    Fourth, they should have identified the Good Ol' Boys Roundup as a get-together of ATF and other federal agents.

    All that would have brought the reader up to speed about what the hypocrisy and irony was.

    By making the assumption that everyone already understood all this they missed the target altogether and harmed themselves and our common cause.

    We need to be sure that what we think "everyone" knows actually is something folks outside our movement are familiar with. No assumptions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2007
  25. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    Agree with HSO.

    This is a textbook example of a failed message.

    If is a real world case of how doing something badly can damage yourself, your reputation, and your cause, and that is the primary value of leaving this thread visible.
     
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