JMB's 1911
- Thread starter SquirrelNuts
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Mike Irwin
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The Thompson LaGarde studies have relevance ONLY, and I mean ONLY if you're using hardball ammo.
When you're using expanding ammo, the situation becomes a LOT less clear.
The Thompson LaGarde studies also only indicated what happened when you shoot a steer with a handgun. A steer doesn't have much physiological similarity to a human, so while you can draw some VERY broad associations, you can't really say that a round that stops a steer will have the same effect on a human.
When you're using expanding ammo, the situation becomes a LOT less clear.
The Thompson LaGarde studies also only indicated what happened when you shoot a steer with a handgun. A steer doesn't have much physiological similarity to a human, so while you can draw some VERY broad associations, you can't really say that a round that stops a steer will have the same effect on a human.
I thought Thompson-Lagarde's study used large caliber revo ctgs w/ lead bullets (45 LC, 455, 476 etc.) which would be similar to modern expanding bullets at similar velocities. The early autos that were included used small caliber high velocity FMJ bullets like 30 and 9mm Luger. The Luger bullets were found to be spectacular on brain shots but less than sterling on boiler room performance while the heavy lead slug 45 and up would put the animals down with a couple or three good hits while the Luger rounds would be absorbed by the magazineful before any apparent effects.
Walt Welch, MD, said the expanding handgun bullet is largely a myth.
Walt Welch, MD, said the expanding handgun bullet is largely a myth.
Wildalaska
member
O really? Ever shoot anything alive with a 9mm JHP (like a Black Talon for example)? I have...
Mike Irwin
Member
Thompson LaGarde did use a number of revolvers with lead bullets.
Given the velocities achieved by those rounds at the time, and the fact that they were either round nose or had small flat points, I SERIOUSLY doubt that there was any expansion at all in those bullets.
Any expansion achieved would likely be minor, at best, leading us right back to the T-LG's conclusions that at the time, bigger was better, because bigger was the ONLY way to get a bigger hole in the target, and a bigger hole meant more damage.
"Walt Welch, MD, said the expanding handgun bullet is largely a myth."
I don't know who Walt Welch is, what kind of MD he is, or how many bullet wounds he sees, but I'm really wondering if he's seen any of the new generation of handgun bullets at work.
I've seen photos of more than enough expanded handgun bullets, dug from humans (both living and corpses) to recognize that these AREN'T your Grandfather's hollowpoints anymore.
Given the velocities achieved by those rounds at the time, and the fact that they were either round nose or had small flat points, I SERIOUSLY doubt that there was any expansion at all in those bullets.
Any expansion achieved would likely be minor, at best, leading us right back to the T-LG's conclusions that at the time, bigger was better, because bigger was the ONLY way to get a bigger hole in the target, and a bigger hole meant more damage.
"Walt Welch, MD, said the expanding handgun bullet is largely a myth."
I don't know who Walt Welch is, what kind of MD he is, or how many bullet wounds he sees, but I'm really wondering if he's seen any of the new generation of handgun bullets at work.
I've seen photos of more than enough expanded handgun bullets, dug from humans (both living and corpses) to recognize that these AREN'T your Grandfather's hollowpoints anymore.
The point of Dr. Welch's contention was the WOUND was not significantly different from either type bullet. Dr. Welch posted on TFL for quite a few years and was an ER physician with 20 years experience. Reckon he saw a few GSWs in his day.
He made some interesting professional observations on the Miami 1986 fibbie fiasco and an analysis of the autopsies. You should look him up.
PS: Mike, please don't mention the T-L cadaver shoots. Might lead to goat test discussions and like unpleasant stuff.
He made some interesting professional observations on the Miami 1986 fibbie fiasco and an analysis of the autopsies. You should look him up.
PS: Mike, please don't mention the T-L cadaver shoots. Might lead to goat test discussions and like unpleasant stuff.
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