Joining Up

[Fuse]

I haven't ever posted here, but I've been lurking and reading threads for a while, now. This isn't explicitly gun related, but some of it is. Hopefully, that won't be a problem.

For a lot of less than enjoyable reasons, I'll probably be joining up soon. I've been thinking about it for a while. I really haven't been sure I've wanted to join up, and I suppose I'm not now either, but I was fairly sure I didn't want to join as an enlisted man; at this point, however, it doesn't seem like I'll have much of a choice. As I'm 20 and still in college, I'm really not sure how this is going to affect that or what my options are for active service, but I am hoping not to spend more than two years in, and hopefully less in country. Is that even possible? I specifically want to be a ranger, but I'm not sure whether training counts as part of your enlisted time, etc.

In basic, will I be able to bring personal posessions? Afterwards? In country? I realize, to some degree, these are questions I should take up with a recruiter soon— and I plan to— but my experience with a marine recruiter a couple years ago left a bit to be desired, and any advice or experience other members here can offer would be greatly appreciated.

As to the gun specific question, which may seem a bit silly to some, here goes: I have never touched a firearm in my life. I suppose I am quite knowledgable about them for someone who hasn't, for what little that says. What may seem silly is that while I am honestly not very worried about dying, I <i>am</i> rather worried about losing my hearing. Guns are loud, after all, and even a good pair of in ear plugs with, say, a generous NR 33, will not protect you enough to ensure no damage. Are there any alternatives I could look into that would protect me from damaging my hearing? For obvious reasons, I imagine doubling up on good plugs and muffs is not viable in combat. I have so far taken very good care of my hearing, and I really don't want to come out of this with hearing loss, titinus, etc. Agan, I'd appreciate any advice on this. Thanks.

 

[GT]

You seem...er...conflicted.

Rangers Lead the Way™ so you will be expected to kick in doors and shoot people, support SOF and generally send and receive a lot of fire (cf. Black Hawk Down etc).

If you really don't want to be in the shooting war then get a desk assignment or join the Airforce (aka Chairforce) which will lower your chances of getting your parts blown off or shooting a lot without hearing protection.

Trouble is, if you want the glory of the Rangers you will need to put yourself somewhat in harm's way.

Others will be able to inform you more about the details.

Thanks in advance for your service.

G

 

[Hobie]

Took me a moment to understand that you were talking about enlisting in the US Armed Forces. Hooooooooooorah!

Dying or the threat of it didn't bother me in my youth. I was always more worried about being maimed. Didn't happen. Studied American Sign Language and did worry about my hearing since I was a linguist for a while.

From the day you raise your hand and swear in your time "counts". Where else will they train you AND pay you? Lots of benefits it is true but the biggest benefit is that when it is done, whenever it is done, you can look back and say to yourself "I did that" and "I served my country". That was worth losing the GI Bill to me (went over 20 years through the GI Bill transitions). Of course there will be "bad" things that happen to you. There are days you will be absolutely miserable (and I'm not talking about just wanting a HOT pizza or COLD beer).

There is nothing wrong with being enlisted as opposed to being an officer. The two have some different roles to play. However, if you plan on making or continuing a career and want it to jump to a post-service career I do recommend you getting a commission. This means that you must get a degree. You can do this as an enlisted person and there are several ways to do it.

While it changes all the time, getting enlistment guarantees will add to the minimum time in almost every case. The longer the training, the longer the committment.

Access to personal property is limited during basic training but you get what you need. I NEVER ever felt denied except that it wasn't all that easy to hunt during my nearly 5 years in Korea.

I see no particular benefit to any service that isn't offset by another service. We used to say that if you wanted to eat well join the Navy, to live in comfort join the Air Force, to make rank join the Army and to have the admiration of your opposition in a bar fight join the Marines. Yep, I was in the Army.

Like the rest of life you get up every morning, make choices and live with the consequences. As T. J. Jackson once said, "Duty is ours, consequences belong to God."

I do note a certain reticence about this. Perhaps you shouldn't enlist. Maybe you should buckle down, get a job and pay off your college bills. Sometimes folks choose a path for which they are unsuited.

 

[Sam]

Fuse,
Congratulations.

In basic you will not be allowed to retain any of your personal items with the possible exception of a bible and a toothbrush. Any thing you take that is not required will be taken from you and stored while you are in basic, returned after you leave basic. Your choices in training will be limited to quite a degree if you manage to get a less than 4 year commitment. If you want to go to any serious training you will be required to go for 4 and maybe more. They don't like to waste training dollars that they will not recoup soon.

When deployed you can take some minimal amounts of personal belongings but that is quite limited. If you can't carry it in your hands (while loaded down with your TA 50 gear) don't plan on taking it with you. Stateside you will be able to have most anything you can get in your quarters without making it unsafe. As far as preserving your hearing, you will get adequate protection for the activities you have to do. Most time they make you plug up and wear muffs. All in accordance with ............

Goin in.
If you are going in because you ran out of school money, DON'T. Get a job at Micky D's and save up to finish school. Go because you love your country enough to serve. If you have any other reason for enlisting, forget it. You would not enjoy it very much and you would make everyone around you miserable. GI bill money is fine after you get out but first termers need to soldier to the exclusion of all else. It's OK to be miserable when you are a draftee and everyone else is a miserable draftee too, as a volunteer, it can't happen. I spent a lot of time throwing out troops who "only came in to get the GI Bill and finish school". I wouldn't want you to end up that way. Better Micky D, or the IHOP.

Sam

 

[Fuse]

You seem...er...conflicted.

Rangers Lead the Way™ so you will be expected to kick in doors and shoot people, support SOF and generally send and receive a lot of fire (cf. Black Hawk Down etc).

If you really don't want to be in the shooting war then get a desk assignment or join the Airforce (aka Chairforce) which will lower your chances of getting your parts blown off or shooting a lot without hearing protection.

Trouble is, if you want the glory of the Rangers you will need to put yourself somewhat in harm's way.

I won't deny that I am rather conflicted about this for a number of reasons. It is a pretty large commitment, after all, and while there are obvious risks and I am aware of them, it is probably the time commitment that's weighing most heavily on me.

But the truth is that if I'm going to sign up, I don't want a desk job, I don't want to be a cook, and I don't want to run communications. And it's not that those jobs aren't necessary or valuable in their own ways, and I'm not interested in glory and I'm not going over there to be a hero. But I also can't deny that there is something seductive about the adversity in such a terrible place, and there is an appeal in the camaraderie. I have about as few illusions about the realities of war as one can have without having experienced it; I'd hope I'm as near ready as one can be as well.

 

[Double Maduro]

Fuse,

Welcome to the forums.

I really haven't been sure I've wanted to join up, and I suppose I'm not now either, but I was fairly sure I didn't want to join as an enlisted man; at this point, however, it doesn't seem like I'll have much of a choice.

You always have a choice.

As I'm 20 and still in college, I'm really not sure how this is going to affect that or what my options are for active service,

You might want to check with your recruitor or the ROTC people on campus.

I specifically want to be a ranger, but I'm not sure whether training counts as part of your enlisted time, etc

Ranger training is extremely difficult, again, speak to your recruitor and your ROTC folks on campus.

In basic, will I be able to bring personal posessions? Afterwards? In country?

You will be allowed personal possesions. Of an appropriate nature, remember that your space will be limited.

I realize, to some degree, these are questions I should take up with a recruiter soon— and I plan to— but my experience with a marine recruiter a couple years ago left a bit to be desired, and any advice or experience other members here can offer would be greatly appreciated.

From what I hear, they are having trouble meeting quotas, they may be more willing to deal at the moment. Whatever you do, if they make promises, get it in writing. Don't make a decision that day, go home and think about it, talk to your mentors, to people you trust and make sure this is what you want to do.

I <i>am</i> rather worried about losing my hearing. Guns are loud, after all, and even a good pair of in ear plugs with, say, a generous NR 33, will not protect you enough to ensure no damage. Are there any alternatives I could look into that would protect me from damaging my hearing? .

During training these days, they do all they can to protect your hearing. They didn't when I was in. There are people here more qualified to answer these questions for you, I got out in '68.

The important thing is not to rush into this, especially while feeling trapped.

Talk to the recruitors, to the ROTC people on campus, to the Reserve units in your area. The more information you get the better.

I wish you the best of luck. If you choose to serve, I hope it is for the right reasons and not because you feel trapped.

My time in the Army, was mostly, a great experience. I grew and learned a lot. I learned a lot about Duty, Responsibility, Loyalty, Friendship, Leadership, People, Life and Death, among other things.

Let us know what you decide.
DM

 

[Moondoggie]

Your lack of enthusiasm for military service does not bode well for a potential enlistment. Recruit training in any branch requires a high level of domonstrable personal commitment.

If your heart isn't in it your peers will know, and your training NCO's will know it even faster. Some of these folks will see a need to "adjust" your attitude. This normally involves tremendous unpleasentness. You will NOT find it enjoyable!

For instance, in Ranger training, you can be booted out on the basis of peer evals alone. The physical requirements just to get into Ranger training are very rigorous...you'll never get near Ranger training without intense personal effort and lots of gruelling preparation. If you've never considered the discomfort of humping 20 miles with 80 lbs of gear on 2 or 3 hrs of sleep and intentionally limited calorie/water intake FOR DAYS ON END...forgedaboudit! The average Ranger candidate loses 20 lbs OR MORE during Ranger training...and these soldiers were in top physical condition to start with.

My advice, if you must join the military, is to join the reserves. You can go on pretty much all of the active duty you want these days without being locked into years of active duty. Getting to Iraq should be noooooo problem!

 

[Cesiumsponge]

If you don't have option 40 on your contract, you can't join Ranger School unless you have a sufficient amount of time left on your contract after training (I don't recall what that time is). You can still get into Ranger School by having people submit you for it, or yourself applying for the School, but it's much harder. Option 40 guarantees you get a shot at RIP. Also, Airborne is a prereq. to Ranger School, and is 3 weeks in length. You can't get directly into Ranger school without Airborne. Once accepted, you have to do RIP-- a week long weeding-out process. If you qualify, you'll have to wait for the next "block" in Ranger school which might take a few months. The course itself is 60 some odd days long with three phases they call crawl/walk/run, and covers mountain, desert, and swamp phases I believe.

Also note that once you finish Ranger School and get into the 75th Reg, you'll be directed to 1st, 2nd, or 3rd batallion and train 48 weeks out of the year; it isn't a cakewalk once you finish school. That's assuming you aren't deployed.

With college experience, you can start off at a higher rank and higher pay bracket. Enough college credits for a 2 year degree gets yout o E-3. A 4-yr college degree lets you start at E-4. Also there are incentives and bonuses that you have to ask about and get in writing. Last time I checked, 11X recruits that go through Airborne get a $3k check. Different MOS's get different bonuses too. You also get additional pay buffer for combat and whatnot so what you get might be a bit about the basic pay scale.

That said, NEVER enlist because of the money, because it's not that great and you might never get to spend all you accrue in the event you don't make it back. The money is only a pleasant bonus to putting your butt on the line. You can go with the Monty GI for college afterwards at a whopping expense of $100 a month deduction for your first year of pay and get 36months/36k of college money should you wish to pursue another college degree.

In any event, if you don't want to put your arse on the line and need money, find another method--fast food, pan handling, etc. It's not a good idea to be in the military if you don't want to be there. The other enlisted men around you won't like it either if you're a reluctant soldier they can't depend on in their moment of need.

But if you sign up wanting action and challenge, Rangers are going to provide that in spades, and then some. Hopefully that information is helpful. I'm trying to get 91W option 40 myself when I enlist You can still get into Ranger School without the option 40, but its a bit more difficult. Also make sure your MOS is Ranger-compatible. If you sign up for a MOS that Rangers don't need, you're stuck. If you have your heart set on it, don't settle for less from the recruiter; its your life on the line, not his.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

+1

No offense to the others, but I whole heartedly disagree with the others who are encouraging you. I can tell by the words you have written this isn't quite what you want. The following statement is the best so far.

-"Your lack of enthusiasm for military service does not bode well for a potential enlistment. Recruit training in any branch requires a high level of domonstrable personal commitment.

If your heart isn't in it your peers will know, and your training NCO's will know it even faster. Some of these folks will see a need to "adjust" your attitude. This normally involves tremendous unpleasentness. You will NOT find it enjoyable!"-

Finish College and think on it. That will give you both time and maybe more clarity of thought. Not to mention a better pay grade if you do go in. For right now, it sounds like you're on the road for Entry Lev Separation or other early discharge. You need to be SURE that you want to. Don't go in Luke Warm.

 

[El Tejon]

Whatever you decide, I wish you well. Just be certain it is what you wish to do.

Welcome to THR!