Judge upholds Seattle 'gun violence tax' despite challenge from gun rights groups

[thecarfarmer]

And back to the O.P.'s topic...

According to the county's website, there were 1089 suicides between 2006 and 2013, with firearms being used for 452 of those cases.

The report also states that:

Of the 443 deaths from firearm suicides in King County between 2006 and 2010, 88% are males and 12% are females. Of the male deaths, 10% are age 15-24, 30% age 25-44, 36% age 45-64, and 24% age 65 and over.

(the # 452 came from a table just above where I copied the quote from; I have no idea why there is a disparity)

This report seems to indicate two things to me: first, the female half of the population is already resourceful enough to take life without a gun (and the males may be capable of learning), and second, if King County is averaging 88.6 firearm-related suicides per year, that would account for a significant chunk of the 131 firearm-related deaths per year mentioned in the Fox piece.

Applying my fifth-grade math skills here... (131-88.6...) there were 42.4 non-suicide firearm deaths per year during that time period.

Now, consider that police were responsible for 6 of the 29 persons killed in Seattle in 2013 (a city stat, not county wide).

So, when you filter out the people who died by their own hand, or as a result of law enforcement action, you are left with about 3 dozen a year.

Regrettable? Tragic? Certainly.

But, let's be honest about the numbers. And the causes.

I cannot expect adding a $25.00 tax to a firearm, or a buck on a fifty-round box of .22LR to make any difference in this trend.

Just punish law-abiding consumers and businesses for the misdeeds of a few.

Bill

 

[Evergreen]

On a bright note, think of all the money that won't be going to the city of Seattle.. I want the gun and ammo tax struck down, but even if (and hopefully when) it is, I think all gun stores should operate outside the city limits and give their money to more gun friendly city governments. I think Bellevue, Lynnwood and Shoreline can become the new firearm meccas of the Puget Sound. I bet a nice giant Cabelas, Sportsman's Warehouse, Outdoor Emporium, etc being built in Bellevue or Issaquah would be a major boon to the economy and a nice foot in the face to Seattle's fascist city government who is going to lose revenue.

Think about it, stores like Cabelas don't just take money away from gun stores, but they actually compete with some of Seattle's beloved stores, such as REI, etc. The more people shopping outside the city, the less revenue the city receives.

With Seattle's new $15 min wage law, many small mom and pop businesses are going to be forced to shut down and go outside the city limits to operate. What will all the cool liberal hipsters do when every little business is going to be shut down and all they are left with are those big "evil" corporate businesses who can afford to survive Seattle's insane anti-capitalist laws and regulations?

 

[Old Dog]

Seattle had, what, 31 homicides in 2015 through November 23 ... Baltimore, a city with about the same population, had over 300 during the same period. Washington has shall-issue; Maryland ... uh, never mind.

We have a "gun violence problem." Sheesh.

 

[Red Wind]

^ Got all that right! Good work.

 

[Red Wind]

See comparable FBI stats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_(2014)

Baltimore 33.8 homicides per 100,000.
Seattle 3.9 homicides per 100,000.

 

[lilguy]

This is gun rights death by a thousand cuts. They can't get us all at once at the national level, but they are nibbling away. Cook County has a gun tax for several years now and it's not going to be overturned. As long as judges will uphold these laws, localities will continue to implement them.

 

[P5 Guy]

I cannot expect adding a $25.00 tax to a firearm, or a buck on a fifty-round box of .22LR to make any difference in this trend.

Just punish law-abiding consumers and businesses for the misdeeds of a few.

Secondary to increasing the Seattle city government's revenue stream is punishing lawful gun owners. Money comes first, then control.

 

[Old Dog]

Sergey, a gentleman of the highest order, owner of Precise Shooter, says he's going to have to move out of the city. While I understand this completely from a business perspective -- if one wants to be an ethical business owner -- I still feel as though we are giving the antis another victory.

If we could somehow get King County moved to Southern California, this state would be even more awesome.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I don't know how many people have figured out that this law has absolutely nothing to do with offsetting the costs of gun violence.

Compared to many cities the size of Seattle the numbers just don't reflect a huge problem there. Seattle has lots of problems but that isn't one of them. Seattle/King county ranks 4th in the nation for homeless in a metro area. All you have to do is drive through there to see the tents under the freeways.

I think the good politicians in Seattle/King county would like everyone to believe they are progressive but the reality is it's becoming one of the worst cities in the country to live because of the traffic/road conditions and homeless panhandlers.

Seattle, the great elitist/socialist utopia. They all fail sooner or later.

 

[yugorpk]

I don't know how many people have figured out that this law has absolutely nothing to do with offsetting the costs of gun violence.

Compared to many cities the size of Seattle the numbers just don't reflect a huge problem there. Seattle has lots of problems but that isn't one of them. Seattle/King county ranks 4th in the nation for homeless in a metro area. All you have to do is drive through there to see the tents under the freeways.

I think the good politicians in Seattle/King county would like everyone to believe they are progressive but the reality is it's becoming one of the worst cities in the country to live because of the traffic/road conditions and homeless panhandlers.

Seattle, the great elitist/socialist utopia. They all fail sooner or later.

Having lived in cities all over the country AND recently Seattle I have to say that comparing Seattle to actual crap holes like most of Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Orleans, anywhere in Chicagoland, within 50 miles of ST LOUIS, Houston, Philly, DC, Atlanta, and most of the Northeast is a great disservice to the people of Seattle. The traffic is all of Seattle on any give day pales in comparison to what you'll find on a typical day in San Francisco and the aggressive panhandling of LA cannot be matched. Only the hardiest of bums stick around Seattle through the winter rains. Seriously, Seattle has a fraction of the problems most US cities face. Its moderately expensive compared to many cities to be sure but theres MUCH worse and a 20-30 minute drive gets you into much cheaper housing.

 

[Evergreen]

I'm more afraid of being chewed out by some snotty yuppie or a pink short, blue sport coat, orange tie wearing hipster than I am being jacked or being killed by a murderer in Seattle.

In reality, when I am in Tacoma, with a little more grit, grime and more thugs wandering around, yet with much less of the snobby pretentious pricks that are prevalent in Seattle, I actually feel a breath of fresh air.

However, even Tacoma by national standards has a low rate of homicide. And, yet they consider Tacoma a dangerous place by Northwest standards.

Anyway, this gun tax has little to do with saving the children or fighting homicide. It has to do with control and fascism, which fits the political alignments of Seattle's city council. Let's think of the Indian immigrant fascist, who is now one of the most prominent city council leaders, Kshama Sawant; who thinks all capitalists should be sent to prison and that only the State should be trusted with weapons. She dreams of having red hammer and sickle flags flying over Seattle's City Hall.

You know you are in good hands when this is your local fascist (who calls herself socialist) city council leader

 

[yugorpk]

Seattle had, what, 31 homicides in 2015 through November 23 ... Baltimore, a city with about the same population, had over 300 during the same period. Washington has shall-issue; Maryland ... uh, never mind.

We have a "gun violence problem." Sheesh.

Its the demographics that make the difference between the two cities. Its not the carry status.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Having lived in cities all over the country AND recently Seattle I have to say that comparing Seattle to actual crap holes like most of Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Orleans, anywhere in Chicagoland, within 50 miles of ST LOUIS, Houston, Philly, DC, Atlanta, and most of the Northeast is a great disservice to the people of Seattle. The traffic is all of Seattle on any give day pales in comparison to what you'll find on a typical day in San Francisco and the aggressive panhandling of LA cannot be matched. Only the hardiest of bums stick around Seattle through the winter rains. Seriously, Seattle has a fraction of the problems most US cities face. Its moderately expensive compared to many cities to be sure but theres MUCH worse and a 20-30 minute drive gets you into much cheaper housing.

Depending on the source Seattle is always ranked in the top 10 cities for traffic problems, usually somewhere in the middle.

I really wouldn't say it "pales in comparison" to any of the top 10 cities in the US with traffic congestion. If you lose over 2 days a year commuting I would say you have a serious traffic problem no matter what city you live in.

And the homeless don't leave Seattle in the winter as you suggest.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...declare-state-of-emergency-over-homelessness/

As far as housing, there are only 6 major cities in the US that have more expensive housing. Moderately expensive? What is your idea of expensive?

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/commentaries/Median-Home-Prices-in-27-Cities

What a bunch of malarky. Try passing that off on someone who doesn't live in the area.

 

[Old Dog]

Its the demographics that make the difference between the two cities. Its not the carry status.

And your point is? I was merely pointing out the failure of logic now in full display here by the astute Seattle City Council ... in a city full of legal guns, gun-owning, gun packing people with a relatively small homicide rate as compared to a city of the same population, full of illegal guns, an astounding homicide rate and some of the most draconian firearms regulation in the country ...

Are you attempting to argue here? And for what purpose?

The traffic is all of Seattle on any give day pales in comparison to what you'll find on a typical day in San Francisco

Never driven on the 405 or 520 during peak commute hours on a typical, heavily raining day, apparently ... (from one who used to take the 101 into San Francisco)

 

[yugorpk]

And your point is? I was merely pointing out the failure of logic now in full display here by the astute Seattle City Council ... in a city full of legal guns, gun-owning, gun packing people with a relatively small homicide rate as compared to a city of the same population, full of illegal guns, an astounding homicide rate and some of the most draconian firearms regulation in the country ...

Are you attempting to argue here? And for what purpose?

Never driven on the 405 or 520 during peak commute hours on a typical, heavily raining day, apparently ... (from one who used to take the 101 into San Francisco)

I lived in Seattle Metro for 15 years and I go back there quite often. 405 on a rainy day compared to DC traffic, New York traffic, LA traffic or San Francisco traffic is a joke. You have short periods of high traffic with the rest of the day being a fee cruise through.

Seattle homicides aren't lower than everywhere else because of concealed carry prevalence. Its a total non sequitur. There is no comparison between the populations of Baltimore and Seattle or really anywhere else unless you take into account the disparate demographics.. I'd argue that if you had the same concealed carry percentage in Baltimore that you do in Seattle you'd have even more murders in Baltimore. There isnt a neighborhood in Seattle I wouldnt feel comfortable walking through unarmed. There isnt a neighborhood in Baltimore I would walk through even if I was armed.

 

[Old Dog]

Seattle homicides aren't lower than everywhere else because of concealed carry prevalence. Its a total non sequitur.

Gosh, apparently I wasn't clear enough. I was in no way trying to imply that Seattle's homicide rate is so much ridiculously lower than Baltimore's BECAUSE we can carry legally in Seattle (and there are lots of us) whereas in Baltimore, the only legal guns are in the hands of the cops. Although, perhaps you should think about it ... in my hometown (Detroit), the good guys are taking out the bad guys with far more consistency since shall-issue passed in the state and homicides have continued to decrease ... Anyway, I digress ..

What I WAS attempting to point out was the silliness, nay, the incredible irony, of Seattle's politicians trying to paint their city as suffering from a gun violence problem when the reality is that, for a city of its size, Seattle is far safer in this regard than most any other metro area of comparable size. As you (who apparently don't drive much in the city anymore) keep trying to point out, things aren't that bad in Seattle compared to other cities.

Kindly read through posts for context, not for points to dissect and argue.