Junk Knives

[Mongrel]

hmmm...

30 or 40 years ago this discussion was sooooo much easier.

There were simply good knives and JUNK. Typically junk came by boat and the 'good stuff' was made a few states over. Customs, semi-customs, and hand mades were still pretty rare and you could name nationally recognized makers almost on one hand if I'm not mistaken.

Today? Whole 'nother ball game I think.

My grandfathers never lived to see the day when *anything* from Japan would have been acceptable, let alone Taiwan, China or India. Back in the day THEY would come to us (or perhaps the Germans) for anything of quality.

Now? One only need to look at what is produced in Seki City Japan or Taiwan to see that things have changed. And if you don't think the Chinese are catching up (and fast...) in the quality department I don't think you've been watching closely enough. The market has been opnened up and even 'respectable' companies like Benchmade are importing from them. I can't believe a company like Benchmade or Spyderco, or some of the other 'higher end' production companies would be risking thier reputations on 'junk'. Once failures started getting reported it would be all over. And, so far anyway, I haven't heard of that happening.

We all know we are choking on goods from overseas. Most of us don't like it one bit. But the fact is not everything being imported can be classified as junk no matter how much we hate where they are coming from.

Ok...with that out of the way we need to get back to some basic parameters of this discussion:

WHO needs the knife? (LEO, Military, construction worker, office worker?)
WHAT will they be using the knife for? (defense? cutting boxes? cigars? cutting people out of cars or helicopters?)
WHERE do they intend to use, keep, store, or display the knife? (at sea? in the air? at the office? on the street? in the woods?)
WHEN do they intend to carry the knife? (all day? sheath\fixed blade? only while hunting? too impress girls at the mall?)
WHY do they NEED a knife or WANT a knife? (seriously-are you gonna use it or admire it?)
HOW much can they afford? (are you a collector of rare and exotic things who drives a Mercedes or are you a plumber who drives an 18 year old truck?)

I submit that within those parameters you can find a quality blade to meet any need at any price point whether it's a Case, Benchmade, or a Sebenza.

 

[Brian Dale]

Ask:

(1) What is it for?
(2) Will it do that?

If you can answer (1) and (2) clearly for yourself, then:

3) Fine tools are worth paying for.
4) Owning junk brings pain to your soul.

 

[bikerdoc]

+1 Brian
a knife is supposed to cut by definition if it does not cut, cant cut by sharpening beause of poor material, and is made poorly then it is junk
inexpensive does not mean junk. inexpensive means a knife that works as it should at a good price and there in lies the difference. A knife that does not do its job is junk

 

[The Tourist]

+1 Bikerdoc. I got that lesson drummed into my head early this morning.

My wife is building a Pampered Chef business as a part-time job for when she fully retires. And it's no big secret that while PC has some of the best kitchen appliances, their old knives were pure junk.

That changed about +two years ago. I must warn you, I'm a snob when it comes to kitchen and restaurant knives.

As a side note, you will notice in some old pics of mine, two PC knives have been in cold storage. They are my wife's personal property and they were worn from demos.

Tomorrow she has a show highlighting new knives, and she wants to prepare a meal for her hosts and guests using these newer knives. She told me to repair the knives for her show.

So, reluctantly, I got out the stones and started my repairs. One was very good, the other had a bevel that was a tad crooked. I still have some polishing to complete, but the knives are back in the freezer for this next phase.

But I got my eyes opened. I had made a prejudiced decision. "Once junk, always junk." However, these knives seem to repond to waterstones and will be razor sharp sometime tonight. I did not believe that to be even possible.

I've even heard that canard from clients who own Buck 110s from about +eight years ago. Things change, things evolve. Not always for the better, but commerce is a very fluid media.

Do some research. Get on a hobbyist forum where knives and sharpening are discussed. Set aside preconceived ideas and that smug attitude about edged tools.

Three years ago I would not have known Josh Graham if I ran him down in a crosswalk. Now some of my best personal knives are of his design, built by his hand.

 

[sm]

Young lady cannot have a "knife" in a setting.
So she got herself a new Vic Classic SD, in Tie Dye, it's "pretty cool".

Using a pair of compound side cutters, I cut off the main blade. Filed the remnants of the tang where it fits down inside the handle/liners and hand finished and polished it where it is "pretty" and unless knew there was ever a main blade, one cannot tell by looking.

Now I have been carrying a dull SAK Classic SD. So I gave the young lady my tooth pick , tweezers and key ring, for spare parts.
Real pretty little clear plastic tube with a cork top to keep these in.

Since I had these compound cutters handy, I snipped off the point of my main blade and filed it flat.
I used the file to remove the edge totally from my main blade, hand finished it, and it looks like the nail blade now.

Young ladies mom needed a "office tool" so I gave her "my knife".

I had two small stones, a Norton and Arkansas , and gave them to some Veterans in rehab for injuries sustained in Afghanistan and Iraq.
A Vietnam Veteran is assisting these two and others, including family and kids, in how to whittle .
Just a fun thing, and they use SAK Pocket Pals. Simple stones and strop on leather.
'Nam Vet uses a Pocket Pal, and if everyone is using the same knife, just easier to assist in getting hands to do what they need to do.
If these knives get lost, or stolen being in and around hosptials, and rehab, it is not a big loss, other than sentimental.

I had one Old Hickory paring knife and one of the Vet's wives liked it, so I gave it to her.
One Marine is headed back to Iraq and mentioned how handy his SAK Spartan was, so I had had a new one sent to me, and gave it to him.
His son got the new SAK classic that came in that "combo pack" for $18 at Target.

My gals I run with, said I really needed to shoot my CCW and Youth Single Shot shotgun, in 20 ga, the only two guns I keep handy.

I said for them to take them, shoot the damn things, and assist with some new folks.
"What are you going to do for a CCW or home gun?" they asked.
"I'm not" I replied.

Email rec'd says my prized shotgun and some other items, might be gone.
A bad thing happened over the weekend where I keep some stuff off site.
I'll worry about it later.
I have some business to attend to.

Some nice folks sent me some knife stuff, and I have packages to wrap, so these can get to folks like returning Vets, or those going back, those that lost all during tornadoes, and floods we had.
Some are going to nice folks in the knife business to assist with efforts they are doing.

What few knives I have left, to replace what I lost during tornadoes, fire, flood and the like, are being packed up and set aside.
I think I have a carton cutter that takes single edge razor blades, and a orange disposable "snap off" box cutter.
The Dollar Store has some junk serrated paring knives I have used for office parties and the like before , and I'll snag one of those for $1 or maybe they are $2 *shrug* don't know, don't care, it works for food prep and is close enough for gubmint work.

It ain't no big and I ain't either. None of this stuff was never about me, instead others.
I knew from a young age I was disposable and that helps a lot with keeping life in perspective.

The gals and kids I have passed onto, can pass forward knife and gun stuff.
My role is to grin, mess with the dawg , smoke, and sip coffee and the like for a bit now.
I "might" do some stuff behind the monitor, or on some sites where I use other user names that are invite only , one had to have credentials, and the like.
Not here, not in public , not in non-firearm I won't be , and not sure when or if I will again.
I have never posted in activism, and never will.
Non-firearm, Shotguns, and some other sub forums I will not be active in either.

I earned getting to where I am, and have decided to enjoy the hell out of it.

steve

 

[theotherwaldo]

A junk knife is one that was designed for a purpose which it cannot fulfill.

 

[Thernlund]

A junk knife is one that was designed for a purpose which it cannot fulfill adequately.

Fixed it for ya.


-T.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Thanks, I was interrupted.

If a knife fulfills its function then it is not junk. If the knife is intended to hang on the wall and look good and it does this well, then that is not a junk knife.

A rubber knife that was designed not to cut is only junk if it cuts.

 

[Navy joe]

I bought 4 of the junk Winchester knives already mentioned here. The reasoning was they were $10 and I was going to be traveling a fair amount overseas. Knives were available there, but expensive, some places there were no laws against them but the local police might not like them. Always stood the Navy's rules which read about like TSA, as if we were going to take over some foreign country with a SAK. These days you can expect the military to metal detect its own people, how far we've come. I never lost any but the idea was a knife to put in a trashcan I wouldn't cry over. Now I leave them in various bags a toolboxes that I may use when away from home on the theory that a crappy knife is better than no knife.

The lock is junk as already discussed. A field expedient fix for any junk liner lock when you anticipate hard use is to open the knife and jam a penny or dime sized object down behind it. Pound in good with a stick or gun butt if so desired.

 

[JTW Jr.]

I have an old Remington slip joint.. from the late 50's , early 60's , came from a deceased older gents estate who apparently never used it. Some will look at it as junk , however to me it is not. Walk & Talk is darn near purfect , blades are sharp as heck.

Is it the same quality as my Erickson custom slip joint ? ( I call it custom as he made it to my exact specs , including blade shape , swedge , bolsters , scale material , etc ) It's not in the same league as the Erickson , but it dont have to be , it's probably $250 cheaper.

To me , junk knives are fury , frost , etc.

Junk knives won't hold an edge or flex so much when you use them.

Like Don said , those who are into the high dollar collector knives , by some top forged makers will consider the knives I make scrap. It is all in the eye of the beholder , or as I say , beerholder.

Different views for diff people. Give you an example , some folks are diehard Hartsfield fans , now to me , those knives just dont look finished ! But they are sharp as heck , and cut extremely well , yet I have yet to see many that are finished beyond what appears to be 120 grit. However , they sell for $1,000 and up.

What is it worth to you ? Does it make you happy ? After all , it is your money you are spending , not mine.

What I do find hilarious , is the guy with the Les Baer custom ( semi-custom ? they dont make the frames afterall ) and yet has a $5 Fury knife to back it up...yet he bags on others for carrying a $300-$500 knife.
We have a guy like that at the range , decked out 1911 , decked out AR15 , Panerai Watch , new Vette.... $5 knife. Same guy always harps on me for spending $300+ on a knife.

I look at stuff on what I call SPD ratio. Smiles per Dollar.
How often do I use it ? How long will it last ? How durable is it ?

Knives I use daily

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Favorite Junker

Last year I bought a "junk" knife.

Knew it when I bought it. I was sitting in a display case at the local Army Surplus place. Orange & black plastic handle. Made by Fury or Frost.

Had a set of change-out blades, a cheesy mini-fork & mini-can-opener.

It was maybe $18, and I bought it knowing that it was junk. Still, I wanted to try it out and see how the concept worked.

Imagine my surprise when I got it home and discovered it was sharp -- all the blades were -- balanced well in the hand, and did a quite passable job of hacking up dinner. The blades held edges better than I expected and took better edges than I expected.

I added it to my traveling kitchen. All I had wanted to something to test the blade changer concept and I wound up with a usable tool.

Sometime later, I picked up the Case XX Changer. I wasn't worried about whether the concept worked -- I'd already tried that -- I was only concerned about the implementation. I needn't have worried.

I have plenty of junkers that I'll never use and never sell (why do that to someone?), but I have a number of them that turned out better than I had imagined.

I'm not sure there's a lesson here, but I did find that not all junk is created equal.

 

[JTW Jr.]

You will see more high dollar knives sitting in a safe or a padded case than being used. I happen to enjoy using all that I buy , be it $10 or $500.

I have plenty of customs in my collection , but the one knife I would give them all up for , is to have that old patina'd scout knife that gramma bought for me when I was around 10. That knife isnt a high dollar knife , it was maybe $20 back then (cant recall) but to me that knife is worth more than anything and it was lost (long story).

Like my old Remington that I use daily , worth much ?To many I doubt it , but it was a gift from a very good friend , and that knife , while getting used , still means more to me than many in my collection.

I have a knife in my toolbox , worth maybe $1 to most , too me , priceless. Why ? It was one my middle son , who was 6 at the time , bought for me with money he made from his Kool-Aid stand sales , he bought it at the dollar store , and presented it to me with total pride.

What someone may feel is junk is another man's treasure. That man just might be me

Sometimes I can be a bit knife snobbish and favor some pricier hand mades , but that don't mean I dont have a bunch of others.

I can never pass up a good deal on a SAK or small slip. You may be saying , don't you have enuff knives ? Well , I dont buy em for me all the time , they make great gifts.

Try this some time , pick up a couple of them $10-$20 SAK's, find a scout leader and see if there aren't a few scouts in need of camping knives. It does the body & soul some good to make a kid smile.

 

[mio]

i was looking through some old threads and foud this one. i noticed a little bit of smith and wesson knife bashing in it and had to throw in my 2 cents.

about a year and a half ago i bought a smith and wesson border guard for 20 bucks. its made in china and very bulky and heavy, a bit too large for carrying in my pocket i thought at the time. i bought it mostly to have a cheap knife in my truck in case i hit a deer.

after taking it home and testing it out a bit i found i really liked it so i started carrying it (pocket clip is a lifesaver). its been used for just about everything a knife can be used for including many things its not designed for, a lot of the black is chipped off the blade and its worn shiny in a few places, however it still takes and holds an edge, there is still no blade wobble and the lock has never failed me.

it has proven to be the best all around utility knife that ive ever bought.

having said that i bought one of the smith and wesson bullseyes with the gut hook and was unimpressed with it, it will never replace my marbles knife for hunting but instead resides in my truck. so maybe i got lucky or maybe they do make a couple decent knives the point im trying to make is that you cant always go by the name or country of manufacture.

 

[thebaldguy]

I've got cheap knives that are junk and some that are not junk. I have a Buck style knife from Pakistan that is so tough it takes a lot of work to get an edge, but it hold it's sharpness a long time.

I think you can find a pretty good knife for under $75. If you want to spend more, you can, but I wont.

 

[rantingredneck]

I'm not sure there's a lesson here, but I did find that not all junk is created equal.

I have a knife I bought from walmart about 4 years ago. Actually it was a 2 knife set for 13 bucks or so. One fixed blade one folder in matching realtree camo patterns. I bought it mostly for the fixed blade. I liked the blade pattern. I expected it to be crap soft stainless. I planned to use it as a pattern to build one in a good carbon steel. I fart around a bit with fire, steel and a hammer.

I was pleasantly surprised by this knife. Try as I might I have a hard time not taking it hunting. It is surprisingly sharp and holds an edge well. I've gutted, skinned and quartered quite a few deer with it the past several seasons.

I have "better" knives, or at least knives of better pedigree. This one just works.

The folder on the other hand, from the same package.......is pretty bad.

 

[T.R.]

Current Frost Cutlery products from China are good letter openers. But that's about all they're useful for since they become dull so quickly.

In contrast, Frost Cutlery from the 1980's (made in Japan) was pretty good. Jim Parker left the company and things went to China after that.

TR

 

[BillyBothHands]

I've bought, owned and still buy "Junk" knives. As a proper knife yes they are junk, but they can be very handy prying things around when you have to. I've had my fair share snap, break, chip in all sorts of ways but it was really no loss and the job at hand got done. I generally carry a good knife and
a junker all the time. Just my penny's worth

 

[45Guy]

I picked up a couple of tiny, fully serrated knives that are $2 or are free if you get a fishing permit. One resides in my truck counsel, and has seen it's fair share of use by passengers that don't have their own. The other I have used for some minor self-surgeries, removing splinters, popping some nastiness of the skin, or relieving pressure with a small cut. The blade is kinda crappy, it doesn't have a strong lock, but the tip is extremely sharp, and that's what is usually used.

It opens up CD cases real well in the parking lot of the store I just bought it from too.