beerslurpy
member
Dont mess with people's families and dont get shot. A valuable lesson all socialist do-gooders would benefit from learning.
Jury acquits man who shot police officer
- Thread starter Ian
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Cosmoline
Member
In practice it's actually pretty easy to tell cops from everyone else. They walk differently, dress differently, and darn sure knock on doors differently! 
Living where I do, let's just say the police are often knocking on doors in the wee hours. I can tell the knock from a half-sleep half a block away. Authoritative pounding, with squelching radios in the background? Better put your pants on, 'cause your going downtown. Weak hand tapping while someone is trying to turn your doorknob? THAT'S NOT A COP!
It's also pretty amusing to see the "undercover" officers with their nicely pressed pants and clean shoes. I remember pulling into the parking lot of the complex to see three men at the front office, all in unusually nice shirts for the district and shades. I thought to myself "feds" and sure enough--feds. Not coming for me that time, though.
This shooting reminds me a bit of the Big Lake shooting. Dark, iffy circumstances. Hard to tell without being there, but sure sounds questionable. They were right to take it to a jury, but beyond that we just have to trust the jury.
Living where I do, let's just say the police are often knocking on doors in the wee hours. I can tell the knock from a half-sleep half a block away. Authoritative pounding, with squelching radios in the background? Better put your pants on, 'cause your going downtown. Weak hand tapping while someone is trying to turn your doorknob? THAT'S NOT A COP!It's also pretty amusing to see the "undercover" officers with their nicely pressed pants and clean shoes. I remember pulling into the parking lot of the complex to see three men at the front office, all in unusually nice shirts for the district and shades. I thought to myself "feds" and sure enough--feds. Not coming for me that time, though.
This shooting reminds me a bit of the Big Lake shooting. Dark, iffy circumstances. Hard to tell without being there, but sure sounds questionable. They were right to take it to a jury, but beyond that we just have to trust the jury.
Ryder
Member
Right on beerslurpy 
The problem as I see it is that they threaten to destroy the family of everyone they interact with whether it is deserved or not. Threatening them back is a crime. Seems like they'd appreciate the warning? Whatever
I have a porch. Some cops knock on the outer door and some knock on the inner door. I don't care which as long as they don't hesitate to identify themselves when I shout out "who's there".
This guy in Florida is lucky to be alive!
The problem as I see it is that they threaten to destroy the family of everyone they interact with whether it is deserved or not. Threatening them back is a crime. Seems like they'd appreciate the warning? Whatever I have a porch. Some cops knock on the outer door and some knock on the inner door. I don't care which as long as they don't hesitate to identify themselves when I shout out "who's there".
This guy in Florida is lucky to be alive!
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
matthew.g.george said:
Yeah, it's a place where you shouldn't enter someone's home illegally and think nothing will happen to you. Horrible place Texas is.....
Exactly.Ian said:
Although one could argue "It could have been the drunk neighbor come home to the wrong house" or "Paramedics at the wrong address after a 911 call" etc - the bottom line is that the man was in a potentially helpless position. When someone has breached an obvious boundary as described, in the middle of the night, and is at the threshold of the house - a bright flashlight on you, has not identified themselves clearly beforehand, it may as well be a shotgun barrel as far as I am concerned.
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Gunsnrovers
Member
I'm glad he was aquitted, but it was certainly iffy.
If the screened in area is what I remember everyone having when I lived in Miami and Orlando in the 1970's, it's just an alumium framed area with bug screen. You had to go into it to reach the house so you could even knock on the door. Knocking on the porch door would get you no where.
Shooting and not knowing your target seems pretty dicey.
Lousy situation.
If the screened in area is what I remember everyone having when I lived in Miami and Orlando in the 1970's, it's just an alumium framed area with bug screen. You had to go into it to reach the house so you could even knock on the door. Knocking on the porch door would get you no where.
Shooting and not knowing your target seems pretty dicey.
Lousy situation.
Silver Bullet
Member
Almost word for word what I was going to say.TexasSIGman said:
If matthew.g.george can let us know where he lives, perhaps we can reroute midnight visitors to his home where they can be welcomed with cookies and milk.
However ... if it had been me, I think I would have waited until they crossed the inside door. This seems like bad judgment to me, but maybe he was terrified.
Graystar
Member
Because he had a gun. What...he should imprison himself in his own home??matthew.g.george said:
:banghead:
Silver Bullet
Member
That really nails it ! Excellent.Graystar said:
I know this has been addressed but why is it the fault of the homeowner to having galss doors??
I realize that glass may be less secure...
But some of you sound like that show "It takes a thief"
Is it not the Thief who is in the wrong for entering your house??? This would not change if the guy had had paper doors...
The law says the porch was "IN the House"
The law says anyone "IN your house" that shouldn't be there is guilty of the Felony breaking and entering.
IN Florida, Texas, Colorado, Nebraska, and several other States A man who enters breaks into your house can reasonably, be assumed to be there to harm you and your family and are therefor subject to use of deadly force..
The Cop in this case was in the wrong..
So says the Jury (Still the final authority on the matter, as defioned in the U.S. constitution)
The police officer was not hurt (maybe his pride) and hopefully learned a valuable lesson..(Don't go jumpin peoples fences and shinin lights on them)
I realize that glass may be less secure...
But some of you sound like that show "It takes a thief"
Is it not the Thief who is in the wrong for entering your house??? This would not change if the guy had had paper doors...
The law says the porch was "IN the House"
The law says anyone "IN your house" that shouldn't be there is guilty of the Felony breaking and entering.
IN Florida, Texas, Colorado, Nebraska, and several other States A man who enters breaks into your house can reasonably, be assumed to be there to harm you and your family and are therefor subject to use of deadly force..
The Cop in this case was in the wrong..
So says the Jury (Still the final authority on the matter, as defioned in the U.S. constitution)
The police officer was not hurt (maybe his pride) and hopefully learned a valuable lesson..(Don't go jumpin peoples fences and shinin lights on them)
BigRobT
Member
Not that it happens a lot, but there have been instances that unscrupulous people have acquired LEO uniforms, gear, and even vehicles that appear to be LEO vehicles, and have invaded homes or performed traffic stops and subsequent rapes, etc., in the recent past. It's getting pretty difficult to determine who the "bad guys" really are. I recall some LEO "appearing" individual from Va Beach around 93-94 doing bad things.
DRZinn
Member
Except that it's in back. If they wanted to knock, they could knock on the front door.
Since I am not engaged in any illegal activity, I have no reasonable expectation that a police officer would be engaged in secret/silent invasion of my home.
I'ld fully expect any home-invasion by a criminal to wear black, and shout "police", to gain the upper hand.
I'ld fully expect any home-invasion by a criminal to wear black, and shout "police", to gain the upper hand.
Gunsnrovers
Member
They were knocking on the front door, which is what woke him up in the first place. The officer in the back was shining a flashlight into the house.
Not exactly a clandestine super secret operation by the local law enforcement types.
gunsmith
member
hard to believe we are reading the same article
...I'm sleeping , late at night I hear banging on my front door??? I get my gun, even if I hear them saying police or I hear radios (how do I know it's not a scanner to alert bad guys the cops are on their way?)
Also (as has been noted) the cop climbed over a seven foot wall
it's easy to think it's a home invasion robbery and not the cops if some one entered your home from the back yard while his pals are knocking down the front door.
I have zero warrants, my taxes are paid & I am not involved with any drug dealers and do not have anything illegal in my home.
if I hear some one yelling police and knocking down my door I am going to answer with the gun I have closest to me at the time, because I know I've done nothing wrong and they are lying to me.
...I'm sleeping , late at night I hear banging on my front door??? I get my gun, even if I hear them saying police or I hear radios (how do I know it's not a scanner to alert bad guys the cops are on their way?)
Also (as has been noted) the cop climbed over a seven foot wall
it's easy to think it's a home invasion robbery and not the cops if some one entered your home from the back yard while his pals are knocking down the front door.
I have zero warrants, my taxes are paid & I am not involved with any drug dealers and do not have anything illegal in my home.
if I hear some one yelling police and knocking down my door I am going to answer with the gun I have closest to me at the time, because I know I've done nothing wrong and they are lying to me.
michaelbane
Member
That guy was lucky...
...that he got a jury that was willing to listen to the evidence. I don't mean to sound cynical here, and I know that the majority of police officers are honest. But it isn't a surprise that the district attorney chose to prosecute the resident. No district attorney is going to make the politically incorrect decision of taking sides against a cop in a situation like this. Even if it is abundantly clear to us enlightened ones that the cop was in the wrong.
...that he got a jury that was willing to listen to the evidence. I don't mean to sound cynical here, and I know that the majority of police officers are honest. But it isn't a surprise that the district attorney chose to prosecute the resident. No district attorney is going to make the politically incorrect decision of taking sides against a cop in a situation like this. Even if it is abundantly clear to us enlightened ones that the cop was in the wrong.
DRZinn
Member
OK, but they still didn't need to go into the screened section to knock on the door, which was my point.
Meplat
Member
matthew.g.george said:
You know of too many kids who have just been abducted, molested and escaped who shine tactical flashlights through glass doors into homeowner's eyes after scaling seven foot fences and entering a closed area of someone's home?
<sheesh>
fantacmet
Member
Around here and everywhere else to the best of my knowledge, a police officer has the duty to identify himself. If I found someone with a flashlight in MY house and they did not ident themselves and I could not see what was in their hands because of it, I would shoot too. No time to ask who they are, or to order them to drop a weapon they may or may not have. By that time if it is a criminal with intent to kill you are already dead, and there is a murderer on the loose, who will their next victim be? If you ask me that cop got off damn lucky, not only did he get to live, not only aside from his bruise was a damaged ego, but he didn't get charges filed on him. In that situation that cop should at the bare minimums be psychologically re-evaluated for being a police officer, should be interogated why he did not identify himself, and should be charged with reckless endangerment. Don't get me wrong, I like cops, alot. The only thing keeping me from a position as an officer is my lack of a 4 year degree, some bad choices in my credit history which screwed up my credit a bit, and the jackass who is stealing my identity. Well that and me being a fatboy with a degenerative knee disease that will put me in a chair sooner or later doesn't help but still. The officer may not have deserved what he got being an officer and all, but he was WAY out of line.
Rev. Michael
Rev. Michael
Gun Geezer
Member
matthew.g.george said:
The person who first hurls insults is generally considered not to be the brightest bulb in the lamp. I guess common discourse without verbal attack is just beyond some folk.
Feel free to stay out of Texas. We have enough problems.
xd9fan
Member
beerslurpy said:
amen.....
GruntII
member
My profession can be full of it's self. Bad decisions and tactics combined with the I'm the police arrogance can lead to bad things happening. I'm glad this guy was cleared. I wish the guy in Mississippi who shot an idiot brother officer had been cleared instead of convicted. I'm not your average cop folks I was brought up to be a peace officer by old school peace officers. If my brothers in blue make a mistake I call it as I see it. If they do the right thing I defend them. Personally i think we have too much of the Paramilitary and not enough of the peace officer mentality in my line of work these days.
fantacmet
Member
It's true he did enter an occupied house. There was a barrier which means secured. Just because it isn't a super secure bunker means that it's ok to enter? Well damn I can smash the window of any store then and walk in when it's closed and it's not a crime because it's not a bunker. Wow, love that mentality. IT IS YOUR PRIVATE DOMAIN!!! ANYONE ENTERING WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION IS PROVING A DANGER!!! SHOOT THE SOB!!!
I have had a cop(before I got my CHL and started carrying) fail to identify himself while he was shining a light in my face, I couldn't see a damn thing. I asked him to identify himself, he told me to shut up, I demanded he identify himself or I was going to kick his ass, he then grabbed me and threw me around and said "listen you son of a bitch don't you EVER tell me what to do I am a police officer, do you understand me?" This whole mentality that one should automatically know a cop, and that they are above the law like this is ludicrous. He then threataned to arrest me for threataning assult on a police officer. I tried explaining to him he was to identify himself which got more threats of charges and arrest, that I am not supposed to be telling him how to do his job and harassing him. I was doing nothing more then walking home from the local stop n rob after buying something for dinner and a snack because I was too tired to cook at about 10:00pm after getting off work. A call to his supervisor after getting home an hour and a half later, got his sorry ass suspended. I think he should have been fired. Power trip. I have no respect for officers with power trips.
Here you can't shoot an intruder in your home unless he is threataning killing you or great bodily harm(rape does not constitute great bodily harm by the way, if your choice is shoot him or be raped, by law you are required to be raped), however you can shoot someone entering your neighbors OCCUPIED home, just not your own. The castle doctrine doesn't exist here. However I have written to my legislators, and governer. I have also gotten a list of names of elected officials who would sponsor such a bill and I plan to try and get it in. As it stands unless your life is in danger not just a threat, but truly in danger(weapon etc) or imminent great bodily harm(they are already beating you with a baseball bat or trying to for example) you are to allow the criminal to do as they please. Also due to a rather arcane law that was passed by shadow games of not telling what was in the law, only one thing it could allow, the only legal way to defend yourself against anyone is to own a legal firearm and shoot. Thankfully most cops now are ignoring this particular law as they feel it is unjust.
Stand your ground. An officer should identify himself. Good officers do, and I always tell a good officer when he or she is doing a good job and going above and beyond the minimum required. I also call the department and tell them that I am happy with such and such an officer for doing this or that. For bad officers I just make the call, I don't risk having myself arrested by some ******* on a power trip. For the average officer that does what he is required and nothing more who only views his career as just a simple job, I do nothing.
Everyone needs to be held accoutnable for their actions. Cops are not perfect, there are good cops and bad cops. Some feel theyd on't have to follow procedure, they have a gun and the right to use it. Anyone else with a gun is either a criminal or will be a criminal period. I am so sick of this mentality.
I'm glad the guy got off. I still think the cop or cops in question need to have their asses kicked. I hope the one who got shot has learned a valuable lesson that just because he wears that uniform doesn't mean he can arbitrarily break into someones home. Sorry he DID scale a fence, he DID enter into an enclosed porch, he WAS inside a family's personal domain, he DID deserve what he got and more. Did he desrve to die? No, nobody deserves that(well maybe a couple of people but thats not the point), but he deserved alot more then a smack to his ego and the bruise he got from the bullet striking his vest. I wouldhafev suspended his ass WITHOUT pay and ordered a psychological re-evaluation of him. When a cop is suspended they always get suspended without pay, thats nothing more then vacation time. If the officer was in the right, he should be let back on duty, and the pay he missed should be given to him. As it should be anywhere. However if he was in the wrong, he should not get the pay for missed work because of his stupidity. All we are doing is rewarding them for doing bad things, which breeds more cops of similar mind that if they get caught they get a paid vacation.
Rev. Michael
P.S.
Good cops are not as plentiful as they once were, but bad cops are everywhere. We need more good cops, and to weed out the bad ones.
I have had a cop(before I got my CHL and started carrying) fail to identify himself while he was shining a light in my face, I couldn't see a damn thing. I asked him to identify himself, he told me to shut up, I demanded he identify himself or I was going to kick his ass, he then grabbed me and threw me around and said "listen you son of a bitch don't you EVER tell me what to do I am a police officer, do you understand me?" This whole mentality that one should automatically know a cop, and that they are above the law like this is ludicrous. He then threataned to arrest me for threataning assult on a police officer. I tried explaining to him he was to identify himself which got more threats of charges and arrest, that I am not supposed to be telling him how to do his job and harassing him. I was doing nothing more then walking home from the local stop n rob after buying something for dinner and a snack because I was too tired to cook at about 10:00pm after getting off work. A call to his supervisor after getting home an hour and a half later, got his sorry ass suspended. I think he should have been fired. Power trip. I have no respect for officers with power trips.
Here you can't shoot an intruder in your home unless he is threataning killing you or great bodily harm(rape does not constitute great bodily harm by the way, if your choice is shoot him or be raped, by law you are required to be raped), however you can shoot someone entering your neighbors OCCUPIED home, just not your own. The castle doctrine doesn't exist here. However I have written to my legislators, and governer. I have also gotten a list of names of elected officials who would sponsor such a bill and I plan to try and get it in. As it stands unless your life is in danger not just a threat, but truly in danger(weapon etc) or imminent great bodily harm(they are already beating you with a baseball bat or trying to for example) you are to allow the criminal to do as they please. Also due to a rather arcane law that was passed by shadow games of not telling what was in the law, only one thing it could allow, the only legal way to defend yourself against anyone is to own a legal firearm and shoot. Thankfully most cops now are ignoring this particular law as they feel it is unjust.
Stand your ground. An officer should identify himself. Good officers do, and I always tell a good officer when he or she is doing a good job and going above and beyond the minimum required. I also call the department and tell them that I am happy with such and such an officer for doing this or that. For bad officers I just make the call, I don't risk having myself arrested by some ******* on a power trip. For the average officer that does what he is required and nothing more who only views his career as just a simple job, I do nothing.
Everyone needs to be held accoutnable for their actions. Cops are not perfect, there are good cops and bad cops. Some feel theyd on't have to follow procedure, they have a gun and the right to use it. Anyone else with a gun is either a criminal or will be a criminal period. I am so sick of this mentality.
I'm glad the guy got off. I still think the cop or cops in question need to have their asses kicked. I hope the one who got shot has learned a valuable lesson that just because he wears that uniform doesn't mean he can arbitrarily break into someones home. Sorry he DID scale a fence, he DID enter into an enclosed porch, he WAS inside a family's personal domain, he DID deserve what he got and more. Did he desrve to die? No, nobody deserves that(well maybe a couple of people but thats not the point), but he deserved alot more then a smack to his ego and the bruise he got from the bullet striking his vest. I wouldhafev suspended his ass WITHOUT pay and ordered a psychological re-evaluation of him. When a cop is suspended they always get suspended without pay, thats nothing more then vacation time. If the officer was in the right, he should be let back on duty, and the pay he missed should be given to him. As it should be anywhere. However if he was in the wrong, he should not get the pay for missed work because of his stupidity. All we are doing is rewarding them for doing bad things, which breeds more cops of similar mind that if they get caught they get a paid vacation.
Rev. Michael
P.S.
Good cops are not as plentiful as they once were, but bad cops are everywhere. We need more good cops, and to weed out the bad ones.
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