Just bought my first black powder gun. Some advice on projectiles?

[WVGunman]

I just clicked the button to buy an in-line .54-caliber rifle. I feel like you need to have one of just about every single type of gun if you want to be able to shoot anything sometimes. (I sure am glad I stockpiled .22LR after the big ammo shortage of 2008-2016 now!)
But I had actually planned on getting into BP for a while. I bought this particular gun--a Ridge Runner--because it was cheap but seemed decent for the money. This is just to get my feet wet; I won't be out much either way. I know I will always be able to get round balls for this, but I have been a bit (unpleasantly) surprised at how expensive any other type of bullet is for these guns. I am aware .50 caliber has more options, but one of the appeals of .54 to me is a bigger hole on targets that I can see from further away. I also have carpal tunnel, so the bigger bore is easier on me in that way also. Hell, I might even get a .69-caliber musket eventually.

So I'm looking to get creative when it comes to bullets for this .54. I've noticed that while non-round bullets are pricier, .54-caliber SABOTS are cheap. I reload .45 ACP and .44 Magnum. Does anyone know how well these types of bullets would work with a .54 sabot? Can any old bullet be stuffed into a sabot and fired as long as it fits? I'm talking just for target shooting at 50-100 yards. I have some cast lead bullets and some designed for cowboy action shooting, which are not supposed to go above 1,200 fps. Does this limit matter if the bullets use a sabot and actually aren't contacting the bore?
Thanks for any help. I'm excited to get into something new.

 

[dave951]

Your twist rate will determine if your rifle will stabilize conicals or just round ball.

Word of advice- AVOID Pyrodex if at all possible. The fouling is harder and much more corrosive than regular black.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I have a couple of 50cal muzzle loaders that I use sabots with, I purchase bags of sabots and boxes of bullets, the price difference is substantial, I look for XTP bullets in 250 and 300gr that are for rifles, I also bought a big box of 250gr lead hp bullets that shoot very well, look closely when ordering sabots, some are for 44 cal bullets, then there is a difference for 45cal some are below and some above 250gr.
I found that it is not necessary to use full loads and sometimes it is more accurate at lesser loads. Pure black is not as easy to find at a regular store but locally I found 3 places so check around to save hazmat fees, sometimes they keep it in the back. I use 209m primers on the one I have that uses them, I think it burns cleaner. I like to run a patch with windex and a dry patch between shots.

 

[arcticap]

I bought this particular gun--a Ridge Runner--because it was cheap but seemed decent for the money. This is just to get my feet wet; I won't be out much either way.
So I'm looking to get creative when it comes to bullets for this .54. I've noticed that while non-round bullets are pricier, .54-caliber SABOTS are cheap. I reload .45 ACP and .44 Magnum. Does anyone know how well these types of bullets would work with a .54 sabot? Can any old bullet be stuffed into a sabot and fired as long as it fits? I'm talking just for target shooting at 50-100 yards. I have some cast lead bullets and some designed for cowboy action shooting, which are not supposed to go above 1,200 fps. Does this limit matter if the bullets use a sabot and actually aren't contacting the bore?
Thanks for any help. I'm excited to get into something new.

I know which inline model that is and saw them for sale at gun shows in the past. It's a long discontinued model that was made by Palmetto.
Here's a listing for others to see. --->>> https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...n-muzzleloader--on-sale-.cfm?gun_id=101566428

Yes, any bullet that fits can be tried in combination with a sabot.
The velocity rating of the bullet doesn't matter especially if only being used for target shooting.
The rating may indicate that they aren't an exceptionally balanced bullet when fired from a revolver or rifle.
The gun has a twist rate of 1 in 28" which would indicate that it can stabilize heavier bullets.
But I've found that generally, lighter and shorter bullets will be more accurate.
That somewhat depends on how much powder is loaded which imparts RPM's onto the bullets, and the distance to the target.

MMP makes .54 sabots that fit a variety of bullets sizes including for .429 - .430, .451 - .452, and .50. --->>> https://mmpsabots.com/store/mmp-standard-sabots/
If you click on each .54 sabot you'll see that they have recommended bullet weights for target and hunting.
They're just general recommendations but may indicate that longer, heavier bullets may cause some accuracy problems

For instance, the ,429 - .430 /.54 sabot says:
Bullet Possibilities: 180 – 300 Grains
Recommended Deer Bullet: 180 – 240 Grains
----------
The .451 - .452 /.54 sabot says:
Bullet Possibilities: 185 – 300 Grains
Recommended Deer Bullet: 225 – 300 Grains
----------
The .50 / .54 sabots says:
Bullet Possibilities: 325 – 600 Grains
Recommended Deer Bullet: – 325 – 425 Grains

The reality is that some bullets probably won't shoot well in the gun without any apparent reason.
Experiment with the gun a little bit and see how it shoots and how much that you like it.
Setting up a target at a moderate range like 50 yards would be a preferable way to start evaluating bullets and powder loads.
And then perhaps you can try shooting the most accurate bullets at 75 yards to see if they remain accurate before moving out to 100 yards.

There's different powders to try and different barrel cleaning regimens in between shots that can affect accuracy.
There's no secrets when it comes to accuracy, it's just experimentation with powders, charges and cleaning the bore.
If you can't find a satisfactory combination then it's the gun, the bullets or the distance to the target.
There's nothing wrong with shooting at smaller targets at closer distances if long range shooring doesn't work out as planned.
Expensive bullets are an option, but there's also more expensive guns.
You only need to find one bullet /sabot /powder combination that works the best.
You never know until you try.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[arcticap]

Thanks for any help. I'm excited to get into something new.

Are you familiar with the different types of powders?
There's also many different 209 primers to try if that's the type that your rifle uses.

Among the powders are different brands and granulations of black powders, Pyrodex, Triple Seven, American Pioneer.
Each has different fouling characteristics and pressure curves.
Some powder residues are easier to clean and swab between shots than others.

Some 209 primers are made for use with muzzle loaders and others aren't.
They can have different strengths which can affect accuracy to a minor extent.
If a person switches primers it can sometimes affect accuracy.
There's also Winchester 777 primers that are made to not be as hot and powerful so that less of a crud ring is formed when used with 777 powder.

 

[WVGunman]

Thanks for he tips, everybody. Very Helpful! Can anyone tell me anything about using FG to FFFG powder in this gun? Does it matter which grade I use?

 

[stringnut]

You are going to want to use ffg. The rating is based on granule size which affects the burn rate. Fg is for blackpowder cartridges and really large bores in general. FFG is for 50 to 58 cal approx. Used ffg some in my 45 with ok results. Fffg 36 to 45 cal. And ffffg is for smaller bores and priming flintlocks.

This is all based on my memories from 45 years ago when I did a fair amount of black powder when I was a kid. Check several sources as there is all kinds of good info on line. If you can find recommendations for your specific gun better yet.

As has been stated pyrodex is something to avoid. I found that I had to reclean anything it was used in after a couple of days. After the initial cleaning and oiling a lot more crap would come out of the barrel a day or two later. If not cleaned a second time the barrel would rust no matter home much oil you put in it.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello WWGunman,

I've been shooting a Lyman Great Plains Hunter in .54 cal. with an RCBS cast 45-300-FN sized to .454" in a Harvester H5445R sabot. This is 1/32 twist.
The Sabot is designed for a .451-.452 diameter bullet, but my .458 sized to .454 seams to load okay. Accuracy is good with 100 gr of Triple Seven.
We also us this bullet in a Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a MMP Orange HPH Sabot, this makes my 45-70 bullet a little more diversified.
Not sure of your rifling, we have loaded LEE 452-255-RF in a TC Hawken with a Harvester H5045SB. This is 1/48 twist.
We also tried the LEE 452-200-RF with the H5045SB in a Lyman Great Plains rifle, 1/60 twist with good luck.
I guess your rifling would be the question as to whether it will stabilize the bullet. Check this out,
https://www.vcalc.com/wiki/AndrewBudd/Greenhill+Formula+for+Optimal+Rifling+Twist+Rate

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[arcticap]

Thanks for he tips, everybody. Very Helpful! Can anyone tell me anything about using FG to FFFG powder in this gun? Does it matter which grade I use?

Yes, the granulation can make a difference but which granulation to choose can depend on which powder it is.
Generally, 3F burns faster and cleaner than 2F.
If switching from 2F to 3f, a person would load about 10% less of the 3F powder.
777 powder is more powerful than other powders so a person would load about 15% less of it no matter which granulation.
Then make adjustments to the powder charge based on results.

Sometimes the larger 2F powder granulation will shoot better than the smaller 3F granulation because it creates a little less velocity.
But with a short 22 inch barrel, you'd want to get the most velocity and efficiency from the powder as possible.
The traditional muzzle loaders that have much longer barrels can benefit more from using larger granulations because they can maximize the slower burn rate.
You never really know unless you experiment but 2F is a less efficient powder.
Since a person needs to use more volume of 2F powder to equal the velocity of 3F, 2F will usually create more fouling residue in the barrel.
The more powder loaded, the more residue that's left behind.

There's another reason to use 3F that involves the amount of pressure put on the ramrod when ramming the bullet which can affect powder compression and consistent results.
There's not as much air space with 3F which can lead to less variation when the powder is compressed during ramming.
Since 3F is easier to compact during ramming, in theory there could be slightly less variation in ramrod pressure to worry about during ramming.

 

[dave951]

Go with 3f Old EYNSFORD. I use it in my competition muskets and they’re both 2moa guns with minies.