Just Completed First Long Range Build

[Frostbite]

Nice rifle, great ideas, but please, get closer, like you have done it, or do not shoot when you hunt. If you can afford such a rifle, you can afford not to shoot the elk standing at a thousand yards. Again, very cool rifle. Shooting is just a small part in hunting. Really.

 

[sage5907]

At 12 pounds I don't think you'll be carrying it very far from the truck. I am using Reloader 17 in my 30-06 with 150 grain bullets and I was impressed by this powder.

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

I, used the Wyat's system on a 7mm build I, did last year. Sold the rifle but kept the stock, and mag setup.

Love the look of your rig. Good luck!

 

[Peakbagger46]

That's an awesome rifle! How far have you shot it at so far?

 

[Texas Navy]

Amazing build!

 

[captain awesome]

well haters of long range hunting aside, I think your rifle is beautiful and very well thought out. That caliber choice and long action set up with the long throat seems like a really attractive set up. thank you for sharing.

I just love how every one assumes that you're not going to be as ethical in shots or hunting practices as possible.

go ahead and flame me too, but if I saw the Bull or Buck of a lifetime out in a meadow 1k yards way with the light dying down quickly, and no ability to walk up on it without scaring it away, knew my rifle well, and knew it was capable of cleanly taking game at that range, had it ranged accurately, I would take the shot. I have been in a similar situation several times, though never during a rifle hunt...so taking the long shot has never been an option.
My favorite place to hunt elk has a rather unusual situation, some of the elk (particularly the bigger bulls) spend the day over the fence line in the Indian reservation, then head over to the choice grazing areas on "our side" in the early evening and spend the night then head back over the reservation line in the early morning. It makes it darn near impossible to stalk close to them because they really don't waist any time in getting over that fence, and if you don't know, hunting in the tribal lands is a big no no, with heavy consequences. What makes it even harder is they all have several different routes and trails they like to take to get over the fence line, and the fence line doesn't have any straight visual shots in the areas they go that are longer than say about 70 yards. It seems completely random which one they choose so you cant pattern them or if you do its going to be complete luck if they happen to take the route you are sitting. If I ever get drawn for rifle in that hunting unit I could see having to take a long shot a very real possibility.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

I just love how every one assumes that you're not going to be as ethical in shots or hunting practices as possible.

go ahead and flame me too, but if I saw the Bull or Buck of a lifetime out in a meadow 1k yards way with the light dying down quickly, and no ability to walk up on it without scaring it away, knew my rifle well, and knew it was capable of cleanly taking game at that range, had it ranged accurately, I would take the shot.

'As possible' sounds like your excuse, and you rationalize that what makes it ethical is that 'I saw the Bull or Buck of a lifetime'...even though the animal might not be there, when the bullet arrives.

Ethics aren't 'how much you want it', they're about being humane and responsible. If you can't ensure a clean kill, you're being unethical, and the physics involved make it unethical.

Hunting, and shooting paper, are two different things. The first is a skill, mostly lost, over generations. The second skill, is often magnified, on the internet. Skills can be learned, but ethics, are innate to the individual.

If I heard a tale of such a shot, I'd lose respect for the person who took it. To me, it would be criminal.

 

[captain awesome]

don't tell me about skill or excuses. I have crept up on elk, deer, and turkey so close I could touch them with the butt of my rifle on several occasions. I could have kicked a turkey if I wanted. I have had Javalina so close I could easily hit them throwing a large rock. I shot a Coyote from 5 yards away just last year. EVERY animal I have killed (or even shot at, not counting doves during dove season) either dropped dead where it stood or barely made it a few steps. You call me willing to take a long shot I KNOW I can make when there is no other alternative unethical? I think my track record proves if there is any way at all to get close to an animal I WILL. I spent hundreds(yes hundreds) of hours honing my skills with a bow before my last elk hunt to ensure I would cleanly take any shot I had to make. I decided my max range if in the heat of the moment with my set up was 80 yards. yeah I was keeping them on target in decent groups at a hundred but decided before hand I would not take that shot because once in a while there was one far enough off my POA that it could have meant hitting an elk in a less than lethal area. you think it would be any different with a rifle? Grow up.

yes I use the term "as possible" and I stick with it. And as far as "Ensuring a clean kill", you can't and neither can anyone else at any range. there are ALWAYS variables and things that can happen beyond your control. an animal could just as easily move or spook in the time it takes your brain to make the final decision to pull the trigger or release a bow string and sends the electrical impulse down to your fingers, to complete the action, then the time it takes for the mechanisms of the weapon you are using to send its projectile and then the projectiles time in flight, before it actually hits the animal. Not to mention the possibility of hang fires which I have experienced twice, thankfully it was at a range where it didn't matter. and it doesn't have to be a 1000 yard shot from a rifle for all that to matter. But hardly anyone ever hates on bow hunters for some reason.....I don't think I will ever understand how so many have that double standard.

I am not going to post any more on this subject regardless of the responses I get in the interest of the OPs thread staying open, because 1000 yard game shots are not really what this thread is about. Again, NICE rifle. let us know what it does out at extended ranges. I am very interested.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

:banghead:

 

[Casefull]

Nice rifle and good ideas with the build and using the case for powder not bullet. Try some superformance powder in that thing. It works wonders in my 300wsm. Grouped better and 200 fps more than rl17. I like rl17 btw.

As far as the ethics on a 1000 yds hunting shot...It will be 90 percent luck if you hit the animal with your first shot anyway. That is regardless of range finding, wind, animal movement, etc. Killing is killing. If you want to feel good about it quick killing ethical and slow killing not ethical then go ahead. If anyone was really ethical bowhunting would be illegal and only head shots would be allowed with rifles. If you want to be honest about it, the ethics arguments are simply ways to make us feel better about taking a life. Kind of like the officer or soldier can kill in the line of duty. BTW I hunt with firearms and bow both.

 

[rswartsell]

The gun community is a big tent. The hunting community is a smaller faction. Some hunters adopt and perhaps were indoctrinated into an ethos that adds additional considerations that pertain to conservation, safety and a respect for the natural world that is not germane to the range or the pure science of ballistics.

You either share the ethos or you do not. When you fall to trying to diminish those who do not agree with you or share your particular ethos by the practice of name calling, chest thumping and rhetoric that does not respect your opposition's good faith, skill and viewpoint, you shake the whole tent. This is also true for opponents of extreme range hunting.

I will offer deserved respect to those who disagree with the viewpoint I have for extreme range hunting while exercising my right to question your position on this point. I do not need to diminish you directly or by implication to disagree.

If you disagree can you at least reciprocate in this? I do not even now see any inappropriate or disrespectful reaction to the original premise so I will offer an additional opinion that more the more experience accumulated with this hunting range, the more the shooter will come to agree that it is NOT advisable, good as a goal nor a slight to anyone's skill or technical proficiency to avoid it.

 

[Frostbite]

go ahead and flame me too, but if I saw the Bull or Buck of a lifetime out in a meadow 1k yards way with the light dying down quickly, and no ability to walk up on it without scaring it away, knew my rifle well, and knew it was capable of cleanly taking game at that range, had it ranged accurately, I would take the shot.

You would take a shot at an animal a thousand yards away when it is soon going to be dark... Please restrain yourself and reevaluate your approach to hunting.

 

[rswartsell]

Another thought,

Technology continues to change yesterday's reality. Is it your contention that by using current technology you have in effect increased reasonable hunting ranges by a breakthrough?

If so I will have to agree that such a thing is theoretically possible in the future. If you feel you have achieved it now, you simply need to convincingly address the questions of the luddites. You have yet to do so effectively.

 

[captain awesome]

You would take a shot at an animal a thousand yards away when it is soon going to be dark... Please restrain yourself and reevaluate your approach to hunting.

I wont, and agree or not, here is why;

in my scenario that I would take the shot, which by the way I added a lot of qualifiers, and don't consider myself proficient enough to do at this point in time, the elk would be in a meadow as I have seen them do religiously just before dusk in my area of choice. its pretty easy to find big game in the middle of a meadow compared to dense woods. No, I would not consider the dying light to be a problem as we have these wonderful things called flashlights, spot lights, four wheeled drive vehicles with headlights, and radios as well on every hunt I have been on since as long as I can remember. Finding the game I and others have shot in the evening has never been a problem anyway, even in thick brush without the truck. I know I said I would not post anything further, but, ignoring technology for use in hunting is foolish.

I am not contending that I am able to do this right now with any of my current rifle set ups at my current skill level, if you think I was then you need to re-read my post more carefully. I am saying that it COULD be a possibility in my future, and may be for our OP as well. So it appears that at least RSwartsell and I are in somewhat of an agreement.

But saying that NO ONE has any business taking those shots ever at game is ridiculous. Seriously. There are people with incredible skill and talent with incredible optics, rifles, range finders, ect...no, I am not in the camp of those who would do it just to prove they can. But there are indeed some who CAN, and I leave it up to them to make their own decisions on their capabilities.

Just for comparisons sake;
I also feel a lot less sorry for a deer in some ones freezer that lived its whole life healthy and free but got hit by an ill placed shot once or twice from a poor marksman, ran off and died a couple hundred yards later, than the pig in the grocery store who lived its whole life barely able to move, fattened to be unhealthily over weight, fed steroids, and lived a life of abuse, then herded and crammed together with others of its kind tightly in a hot truck for who knows how long, driven out again with an electrical prod, lassoed by its back leg and hoisted up above the ground squealing and terrified then had its throat slashed and bled to death upside down in a place it had never seen before and didn't understand that reeks of blood and death. The lucky ones might have a spike driven quickly into there spinal cord or skull to end the misery quicker.

The alternative for the game animal would be succumbing to a predator which if you have ever seen the nature shows is pretty terrifying and horrific. Almost all wild animals that don't get hit by a vehicle or taken by a hunter meet their end this way sooner or later. Cruelty and suffering is a part of life. Most living creatures experience it in some way. We as humans have it pretty darn good, at least us in the USA do..

I am by no means an animal rights activist, and I buy meat from the grocery store if I am out of game meat. I only bring this up as a reality check that the "issue" of guys taking long range shots at critters is pretty low on the totem pole of animal cruelty, and IMO compared to the other problems out there, really not worth mentioning, much less arguing about. I just tend to be bothered when someone gets flamed for even mentioning in passing the possibility of their rifle being capable of taking game at long range. There seems to be a commonality in a lot of other borderline perceived moral issues on the internet as well. The funny part is the do-gooders actually think the person they are directing their comments at are really going to curb their behavior or plans based one some random person on the internet telling them to. Me? I just enjoy some good debate and love to play the devils advocate when I lean that direction a little bit.

Sorry mossyshooter, I just couldn't resist. I also didn't intend to turn it into an essay but hear I am. I really hope your thread stays open.

 

[sage5907]

I also like your rifle and the amount of thought you took into it's conception. There are a lot of long range precision competition shooters in my area and I have shot some of their 20 pound rifles. Given my choice I would like your 12 pound rifle better than the 20 pound rifles I have shot and it could be used for hunting if the situation was right. It may be a 1000 yard target rifle but I would consider it a 500 yard hunting rifle. There's too much travel time on a bullet at 1000 yards.

 

[69Precision]

"The alternative for the game animal would be succumbing to a predator which if you have ever seen the nature shows is pretty terrifying and horrific. Almost all wild animals that don't get hit by a vehicle or taken by a hunter meet their end this way sooner or later. Cruelty and suffering is a part of life. Most living creatures experience it in some way. We as humans have it pretty darn good, at least us in the USA do.."
So that makes it OK for you to add to the suffering by taking shots that are questionable at best? That's akin to saying there are millions of starving kids in the world so the ones in the USA are no big deal, nature is cruel anyway. Look man, I love long range shooting. I did some ethically questionable things in my youth taking deer with a 223 that proper guidance would have prevented. Of course there's no 100% certainty- something can go wrong at 100 yards. But it's all about probability. At what range a person can hit 9" circle 95% of the time under field condition cold bore vary, but the number that can do it for real at 1,000 yards is incredibly small. You can tilt the odds a bit with the right round and an accurate rifle, but there are too many variables at that range to make it anything but a crapshoot. But hey the animal probably would suffer eventually anyway so may as well lob some rounds downrange, especially if it's a trophy animal and it's almost dark huh?

 

[Cycletroll]

Very nice rifle and cool concept!
I will soon finish a .30-06 AI built on Stiller TAC 300 with Broughton #5 throated long for a somewhat similar concept.
As to the ethics of hunting:
I'll let you be the judge of your own choices in life. You are obviously an experienced rifleman and hunter and are the one who should make the decisions you live with.
I for one wish people would get off their high horses making judgements about someone they don't know, will likely never know, and get on with making the best decisions they can about their own dang life!
The OP posted a cool rifle build. He did not ask us for advice on his hunting choices.
Thanks for posting this cool concept. Gives me some thought for next build.

 

[farmerboy78]

I love this rifle! It has been very thought out, and I am astounded by the performance of the round itself...I too have personally built a long range rifle to punch paper and take extended hunting shots...don't listen to the people running you down for taking long shots on animals, as long as you know your rifle and are very very confident in the distance, I say go for it... I have shot my 6.5-06 to 862 yds and shot a 8.25" group and feel totally comfortable with a 700 yd shot on a deer...awesome job!