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Just don't get the 80% Glock thing.

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by stchman, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. stchman

    stchman Member

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    It looks like the new "in" thing to do is to build an 80% Glock. I looked into it and it actually costs MORE to build a Glock 17 or 19 than to just go buy a Glock 17/19.

    I know I'm gonna get flamed with all the "you just don't understand about building your own Glock" blab. I understand that one can achieve a sense of accomplishment in building a firearm. I know quite a few guys that have built an AR and they end up saving at least $100 if not more.

    I would be all in favor of building my own Glock if it was actually cheaper. I can get a lightly used to LNIB Glock 17 or 19 off Armslist in my area for around $475. For me to build a Glock 17 or 19, it would cost me around $700.

    Sorry not paying a premium for the privilege of building a Glock.
     
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  2. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Cause America!

    Remember, at one time the pet rock was the most popular item sold.

    Honestly though, yeah, I think you're just paying for the privilege of being different, and that's ok. Variety is the spice of life. I for one hate how Glocks feel in my hand, so I'd probably look at one of them if I came across a Glock deal I couldn't pass up.
     
  3. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    I don't get it either.
     
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  4. stchman

    stchman Member

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    I'd be all over it if I could build an 80% Glock 17 for $350.
     
  5. Acera

    Acera Member

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    No tracking, no serial number, no way for anyone to know you have it. (all of which is legal in the free states)

    Me, due to cost I would rather buy a complete handgun at a gun show for cash in a transaction with an individual.

    However I do realize that may not always be an option.


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  6. stchman

    stchman Member

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    You can buy pistols all day long off Armslist with no bill of sale cash money.
     
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  7. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    I guess it would make more sense if the rest of the pistol was easily available at competitive prices through the after market, or if you outsourced the rest of it for cheap second hand.
     
  8. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Guys have been building Glock's on aftermarket frames for a long time - the Polymer 80's are new, and the polymer Lone Wolf is relatively new, but we've been rebuilding Glocks on metal grip frames and take off Glock frames with or without Glock OEM parts for at least a decade, and I certainly wasn't the first one doing it - no idea how long those guys were building them before I did.

    If a guy wants to build a bone stock Glock on a Polymer80 frame, it's much like building your own mil-spec AR-15 carbine - doesn't make a lot of sense. BUT... If a guy is building a custom pistol, it CAN make sense to avoid buying the same parts twice.

    I built on Lone Wolf serialized frames years ago, have 3 Polymer80 pistols now, and I'm sure I'll build a couple more Lone Wolf's before my time is done. I'm not hugely impressed by the Polymer80 product, so I'll probably convert them over to Lone Wolf frames or Glock take off frames sooner than later.

    I don't recommend the Polymer80 frames. But building your own Glock can make sense for some folks.
     
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  9. Kennydale

    Kennydale Member

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    Besides the Titanium Safety Plunger on my G17 and XS Big Dots. Its all original Glock
     
  10. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Same thing as with 80% AR builds. A small percentage are built by hobbyists, who are doing it for the challenge and the satisfaction of completing something. But the vast majority of these 80% guns, IMO, are built by people who, justifiably or not, don't trust the government and are willing to pay more for a gun that is "untraceable" or "off the books."
     
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  11. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Yeah.... but if you're in a free state and you wanted an off the grid gun why not just buy through private sale?

    Are there states that allow non serialized guns but not private sales? Trying to figure the niche.
     
  12. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    True. But to the paranoid mentality, any human being that you buy face-to-face from, could be a "government snitch." The 80% receiver de-personalizes the whole process.
    The whole point of this is to bypass state (and federal) laws and make them irrelevant.

    The "80%" fanboys think they are being clever by going underground. Ultimately, however, if their worst-case nightmares come to pass, and guns are made illegal, their 80% builds could never see the light of day and could not be used, even for self defense, without dire legal consequences. In the end they will have accomplished nothing.
     
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  13. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    Personally, I don't "get" 100% Glocks either. But to each his own....
     
  14. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Unless you're paying cash to some internet company, there's a credit card, Paypal, money order, etc. record anyway so what's the difference? Even cash will generally generate shipping and invoice records that can be subpoenaed. Depersonalized doesn't mean no record.
     
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  15. Acera

    Acera Member

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    I paid cash to a shop for my 80% AR lowers before the election.

    Nothing to track them to me.

    That shop also carries the pistol receivers as well.




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  16. Jack B.

    Jack B. Member

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    Yep. I was thinking about building a 1911 45ACP till I started going through the Brownells catalog and found out how expensive it is to buy all the parts to make one. Can buy a good quality one for a lot less money.
     
  17. Hanzo581

    Hanzo581 Member

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    Hopefully the NSA can't track you through your site usage here.
     
  18. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I'm all for it. Eventually someone is going to make a better "Glock" using a stock Glock as the "milspec". More power to them.

    I don't need to waste my time with 80%'s though.
     
  19. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Ha, Ha. They can, do I need to put the statement out there about a tragic boating accident while transporting all my firearms??

    I figure since my bank account is with anti-gun BOA, I will never use any of those accounts for any firearm related purchase. When the time comes my best guess is they will go after low hanging fruit first.


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  20. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    No sense building a hot rod or custom car for all the money you will spend, hours working on it, the tools, etc. Just go buy one.

    Then there are those of us who understand exactly why we chose the parts we did, the amount of work to get them to interact dynamically, and how to exploit the results. This isn't about Glock per se, AR's and now the SIG P320 are available as 80% lowers.

    Take the AR for example - if I chose a flat kit to assemble, I would have the option of also shortening the mag well, adding a flat strip trigger guard, moving the grip mount position to the rear 3/4", and having the "finished" result be more ergonomic, and not look like an AR lower. Something more like an AR180.

    With AR's and Glocks the serial numbered part being the FFL one, sidestepping that exercise in public regulation is very attractive to some, who can then also point with pride of workmanship in the finished part and having an operating gun. The lack of serial number is of no real importance to most. Actually building a gun that works is.

    With the Glock or AR, the result is finished gun, and yes, it will cost more because buying the parts at retail one at a time nets no discounts the major brands enjoy buying parts 1000 at a time. It is a given. However, if you buy a complete OEM stock gun, then swap out the parts you don't want, you get the same result in terms of money. Even unfired, the spare parts are "used" as they have marks on them from being assembled and taken apart, plus they are the boring cheap commodity pieces everybody else sells. Building a gun is about putting together your vision of what you want that nobody else offers.

    I've seen few vendors offer an AR pistol upper that takes carbine handguards. It's all about free floats - which is patently ridiculous as there is little room for anything, and the effective range is so close that "precision" shooting isn't the point at all. I built my own and it's not only unique, the polymer handguards are warm to the touch in winter, and regulations don't allow lights during hunting season anyway. That is just one example of why people assemble their own.

    There is also the impending regulatory action - which the anti gunners did pass in a western state - where the transfer of any firearm requires a background check. Even loaning a gun to your son for hunting might be included. With an 80% lower, no serial number, that becomes a laughing stock. By making them now, it completely undercuts the intent of that law which is meant to restrict firearms transfers between citizens and intrude on their property rights with government oversight. Frankly, we need a few million MORE unregistered firearms with no serial numbers. It will stop the gun grabbers by the sheer futility of making new schemes to control them and force them into a corner where they have finally fall on their end game - total confiscation.

    A working lower, or grip unit for a Glock, might be 50% more expensive as an 80% lower, but in the overall cost of assembling the entire gun, it's a modest increase. For AR's, a free float can run upwards of $400, and there is also a premium when choosing an alternate cartridge. In the Glock parts bin, a Zev custom slide is more than the cost of a complete Glock - but you can't get one from Glock, ever. If you want that as a carry gun, you have no choice - the cost of the 80% lower is basically incremental at that point. If you have skills and can do it - why not?

    So, it's not about a 80% lower making the gun twice as expensive after all. And it IS about being able to freely exercise your constitutional rights to keep and bear arms. The fundamental fact is that in the day, guns in America were manufactured here because we could exercise the freedom and were making better, more accurate ones, too.

    As for me, nobody makes a short mag well AR lower in aluminum flats, binary trigger, and extended reach grip. I can - and then use it for a pistol lower with a bolt that has an integrated buffer which removes from the end. These are the kinds of projects you can get into by building your own 80%. It's no different than putting a Hemi in a Studebaker - can't buy that off the car lot - and we don't want or need government oversight to do it. Unless, like Australia, you prefer for an Engineer to examine your mods and then sign off with a hefty fee certifying your headers and 1" larger wheels are safe on the public roads?

    Look at how heavily cars are regulated here and abroad and ask if you want that for guns.
     
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  21. Danoobie

    Danoobie Member

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    I have re-built ARs, in order to make them more accurate.
    If I want to save money, I go to Costco.
    I don't see the point, in this case, either. You're basically
    re-inventing the wheel, or pissing on the floor. Just don't get it.

    I re-build a chain-saw, I can cut down trees, save $$. I repair the truck,
    whistle all the way to the bank. If I were to build a glock, I could shoot at
    targets, like I already do with many other guns. ???

    Oh back the truck up, is there a real safety kit you can install on a stock glock?
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  22. Shaq

    Shaq Member

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    Bingo ^^^. Rather amusing what people will do to "be different." Similar to those who "customize" a gun but aren't gunsmiths & end up with a gun that doesn't always function or is unsafe
     
  23. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    Its fun to "build" stuff.

    Buying EVERYTHING from the company store is depressing.
     
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  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I agree with the bulk of your post, but I might point out a specific paradigm which might disagree with this particular sentiment.

    Among a couple other uppers, I have a 6.8SPC SBR - running suppressed with a SiCo Hybrid 45 (to accommodate my 458soc upper also), it's just about the same length with a 10.5" barrel as a 16" carbine without a suppressor. I have a free float handguard on it, and I've hunted coyotes, deer, and hogs. Coyotes and deer shot off of sticks - where a float tube is of real aid. Putting the same can on a 16" tube does work, but it's 6" longer and has that much more muzzle torque from the weight of the can hanging out there. I did have to drill a wrench port through the handguard to access my gas block adjustment with it so far under the hand guard, but a bit of aluminum black and it all looks factory again - but still a bit of a pain. I can reach out to about 375-400yrds before I start getting uncomfortable with the amount of drop for a hunting rifle, and on the vital zone of a coyote, that's a pretty high demand for precision.
     
  25. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    I've got a Apex on my 16" 6.8 but my point was that on my hunting pistol you can only shoot so far before you run out of steam. A 10.5" in 5.56 is about 80m. A 6.8 with less than 10" - 120m.

    I'm talking about how far the bullet will carry over 1,000 foot pounds of force. For taking game at 400m it could be argued even a 16" 6.8 is marginal. The free float isn't going to make or break a good shot for an SBR. It's at best incremental. And for the military user we are talking a mandatory accessory mount for grips, lights, lasers, etc. as it's first line purpose. Floats don't make a gun any more accurate than the barrel, they just make them less inaccurate should pressure be put on it.

    I've heard anecdotal stories of SBR's used out to 400m in combat - however when a team is composed for a combat mission, often one soldier may have a longer barreled rifle and it's his mission to make those shots, not the CQB shooter. For the most part a barrel under 16" is short to manuever in tight quarters or for close encounters - and if you are using a 2MOA barrel with 2MOA red dot on it, I don't see the point of a free float under 100m.

    Just because we can doesn't mean we should. There's a lot of stuff out there being put together which has no basis in functional reality. Selling auto parts to guys building hot rods, I can say that with conviction. Guns are no different. Someone might be able to punch paper at 400m with an SBR but it's about as appropriate as carrying a .50 BMG for ship boarding off the African coast. It's not it's intent and purpose.
     
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