Just got a visit from the cops

[Alex45ACP]

Not sure I would have let one wander around the house without you with him.. not saying that he would.. but some wandering souls have been known to drop plant bags and come back later.. I would be doing some checking on my own..

+1

If I were you, I would immediately conduct a thorough search of the house. Look everywhere and make sure they didn't leave you any "surprises".

 

[nerdiegurl]

What if these "cops" weren't really "cops"? I'm female home alone and let them in? No Way! You can get everything you need off of ebay to play like a cop. Even buy retired cop car. I would have called the police station and verified them first or something, anything. They could have cleaned you out and even caused you harm. The only description the neighbors could have given would be "they were cops". Like anybody got a tag #? Glad it went okay for you, but HOLY CRAP! I don't have anything to hide, but I'm just by nature untrusting. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[sheepdog]

...definitely worth calling the PD and verifying...and did anyone see a marked unit...the whole thing just smells of fish....

 

[PotatoJudge]

if they truly had "reports of drug activity", that's NOT the way they would have come

So, these guys sent a squad car and four unmarked cars to my street, sent five guys to my door while the others questioned my neighbors about drug activity specifically in my house, and if not on a specific tip for my address (as they stated) then why? Why all that organization and work to pick, at random, the least likely house in a four block radius to hit? I'd like to hear what you think they were doing because I can't think of another reason for that kind of setup. I don't mean to sound like a jerk there, I really am curious, from an old cop, what that could be. It genuinely seems like they had the wrong house, and quickly realized it and got out of there. Also, truthfully, I didn't want them to get a warrant and do that kind of search. I just got the place cleaned up and am leaving town for a couple of weeks, have lots coming up at work and chose (see there how personal freedom was exercised) to let them have a look around.

For the record I'm white in a mixed neighborhood that is a majority African American. Most of the parish is AA as well, and the cops were a mixed group. Not an insensitive question in this area.

This took place entirely on my property and I own nothing of questionable legality (fireworks were illegal in Houston where I previously lived, seriously. I mean it when I say nothing illegal). This has nothing to do with brass knuckles, switchblades, storage of hazard chemicals, or CCW laws.

I do appreciate the feedback, especially the former LEO and lawyers. I'll have to look into this much closer in case this comes up again.

 

[Cosmoline]

Error No 1: Letting them come in. You can step outside, locking the door behind you.

Error No. 2: Consenting to a search. Bad bad bad bad. You do that and you're totally at their mercy. You've waived one of your most fundamental rights.

Error No. 3: Assuming that because the LEO's were nice and friendly that you had nothing to fear.

Error No. 4: Assuming that it's your obligation as a citizen to cooperate with a warrant-less search of your home.

Error No. 5: Believing their story about a tip re. drug dealing.

This has nothing to do with brass knuckles, switchblades, storage of hazard chemicals, or CCW laws.

You really have no way of knowing what the search was about. LEO's have a perfect right to lie to you about why they're there and what they're doing. It's standard practice.

 

[nerdiegurl]

If his house gets broken into now and all his "stuff" gets gone, I give you two guesses "who done it" and the first one doesn't count. Think about it, bad guys see what you got, to see if it's worth breaking into, they've got a good look at your security system too. They've got all the time they need to look around with your permission and nobody thinks they are up to anything but their job. Then they come back and know exactly where to find the good stuff, go straight for them, in and out. Who's gonna question it, they've been here before, neighbors are not going to worry about it. To them it will be "here we go again". That's probably not the case here with this situation but lots of things could have happened. I think PotatoJudge did the right thing though, always follow your gut.

 

[PotatoJudge]

What do you guys think about a call to the PD after the fact to confirm the legitimacy of their visit, find out who was involved, who was in charge, all that?

In other words, anything to do now?

 

[sheepdog]

...now it's five at the door instead of three...if you're LIVING in LA now, why does your location still say Texas...that's exactly why I asked your race...it sounds like the way law enforcement does things in La...your strongest suit is to know the law better than they do and to let them know you know what they can and can't do...and the color of the cop makes no difference...again from personal experience...watch yourself...it ain't like it oughta be...they were wrong, presumptive, and you let them be...not good...be careful and EXCERCISE your rights....don't WAIVE them...

...OK...giving you that they were real cops...all the above advice is still right and sincerely given...now you gotta do something with it...use your head and start keeping your cards hidden or you're gonna get fleeced...tell me you've never shaken your head wondering why a patient wouldn't take YOUR advice...

 

[gossamer]

Just out of curiosity; for the folks saying the OP was wrong or screwed up: have you ever had local police show up under similar circumstances? ( uninvited, multiple jurisdictions and officers, ask to come in, ask to search)

if any have, please tell us:
1- what you did differently?
2- why were they reportedly there?
3- what was the outcome?

I would like to read some **strategies and tactics** coming from people who've been in at least similar circumstances and how these strategies and tactics resulted.

Thanks

 

[Zundfolge]

'TaterJudge, In most cases your average law abiding citizen has nothing to fear from letting the police in, letting them poke around and ask some questions. In MOST cases.

All it takes is to be that one case that doesn't go like most cases and you're life as you know and love it is over. Guilty, innocent, doesn't matter.

Setting aside the possibility of crooked cops (because that's pretty doggone rare), the police are there to investigate crimes and collect evidence to help the DA gain convictions. There may be a myriad reasons why some police officer thinks you're a "bad guy", and if he does he's going to pull every dirty trick in the book (the dirty tricks in the book are the legal ones ... there are illegal dirty tricks too, but we're not talking about those) to make sure you get to hear a gavel hit a wood block and the word "Guilty!" while wearing one of your best suits while sweating profusely and crying.

I'm not saying cops want to put innocent people in jail, the vast majority don't. But many of them make up their mind about your guilt or innocence very quickly and if they decide you're guilty they have a lot of tools they can use against you to gain a conviction and throwing away the few (but powerful) rights you have to protect yourself from an honest cop that is just wrong is just not a good idea.


Watch these (and these are just about TALKING to the police, let alone letting them search your home):
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

 

[CWL]

One of the officers comes out of the bedroom with a big smile on his face and says "Hey, is that all your reloading stuff. Do you hunt? How many guns do you have anyway?"

That is a classic fishing question designed to get you to open-up and spill your guts.

Why offer any information when you don't have to? Not all MDs are squeaky clean so your profession doesn't mean a thing, you don't know what they may have really been after, just what they told you.

The fact that 3 officers visited you is an indicator that they were prepared for trouble.

 

[BHP FAN]

I LOVE a story with a happy ending. I'm glad this turned out to be a positive experience for you. Please be realistic enough to realize it could easily not have ...

 

[Trebor]

Do yourself a favor. Watch these two videos (especially the first one) on why you should never voluntarily talk to the police. Listen to the law school Professor explain how that can put you at legal risk and why even just trying to "clear things up" can bite you in the behind later.

Watch the vids. Think about your situation. Then decide if talking to the police and especially letting them search your house without a warrant was your best decision.

The lawyer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

The cop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

 

[PotatoJudge]

...now it's five at the door instead of three...if you're LIVING in LA now, why does your location still say Texas...

Three when I looked out the window, five by the time they all came in. Could have been four, I was a bit nervous. Still says Texas because... I haven't changed it. Moved recently. Still a Texan. I'll still tell you how we do it in Texas. And sheepdog, I've been on THR a long while. Feel free to go back over my old posts and get to know me a bit.

So say I kept them at the door, didn't let them search anything. What is their next step? What can they do? How could they have made my life harder at that point?

Also, what to do now?

One of the officers comes out of the bedroom with a big smile on his face and says "Hey, is that all your reloading stuff. Do you hunt? How many guns do you have anyway?"
That is a classic fishing question designed to get you to open-up and spill your guts.

He didn't wait for an answer, didn't want one, just walked out the front door still smiling.

 

[Trebor]

have you ever had local police show up under similar circumstances?

The circumstances were not the same, but I have had the police show up uninvited at various times.

Typically it was because one of my neighbors at the apartment I was living in at the time would call and complain about one of my *other* neighbors being loud or having an argument with his wife, etc. At least once the cops showed up thinking I was the one the compliant had been called in on and another time they showed up thinking I was the one who called in the compliant (I wasn't) and wanted more info.

Both times I answered the door and then when I saw it was the police I went out in the hall to talk to them, closing the door (mostly) behind me. We either determined that I wasn't the person the compliant had been made about or that I hadn't been the one to call in the compliant.

My roommate asked why I always talked to the cops in the hall. This was during the AWB of '94 to '04 and I did own some "pre-ban" rifles. I told him that there was no reason to let the cops in to see my apartment and that there was always the possibility they'd see one of my rifles and, not understanding the law, figure it was an illegal gun or even a "machine gun."

Even disregarding that, there was nothing for me to gain by letting them see my apartmen and possessions or even just letting them in the apartment. I only talked to them enough so we could figure out I wasn't the apartment causing the noise or that I wasn't the person complaining about the noise. No more then a couple sentances really. Any more then that, or if I would have felt that *I* was the focus of their attention, and I wouldn't even have talked that much.

 

[Claymore1500]

I suppose that going back to the station and getting a "No knock warrant" then paying you another visit at "say" 3AM, kicking in all of your doors and tearing your house apart, Just because you fueled thier suspisions, wouldn't be totally out of the question.

If I am not mistaken, The police asked David Koresh if they could come in and look around, and he said NO.

 

[Mikey_P]

PotatoJudge, I will go against the grain here because I think you did fine. Over the years I have had a lot of dealings with the police and have found that common courtesy goes a long way. Even though most of my dealings have been traffic I know exactly what is in my truck as well as what is in my house. I'm talking about maybe 50 times of interaction with police when I either called or was pulled for something I did.

It's more scarey to me to have an ex-cop tell me not to consent to a search, it lends a feeling of paranoia to me.

Glad it came out well.

Just my $.02, your mileage may vary.

 

[61chalk]

Glad things turned out well for you...but, now you have people, good or bad that
know you have guns....I like the "Sorry, no fishing license no fishing" What would they
of done if you didn't invite them in or consent to a search....They could of decided
to go get search warrant, an guess what, they then would of found out they had the
wrong address......A few weeks ago I had a very young officer stop at my house, I
went out to meet him, he was all in authority an wanted to see the woman of the house
right now....I wasn't inviting him in, an 3 times told him there ain't no woman here, you probably have the wrong address...he called it in an had the wrong street...an I think he even had the wrong town...ha. He was humbled an very polite...an maybe a little imbarrassed........When the cops showed up you could of asked them what they wanted....an then said "What! You better check the address again, are you sure."
The officer at my house did an the case was solved an he didn't get to see all my guns...ha.

 

[Zundfolge]

So Claymore, you're saying we should just surrender our rights because the police are just going to ignore them anyway?

Over the years I have had a lot of dealings with the police and have found that common courtesy goes a long way.

This is one thing that bugs me. There is nothing discourteous about asserting your rights. Nobody said PotatoJudge should get in the cops face and yell "I KNOW MY RIGHTS! GET A WARRANT PIG!!! HA HA HA!!".

When asserting your rights, you can always do so while at the same time exercising common courtesy. When the officer says "Mind if we come in and look around?" There is no discourtesy in saying "No, officer, you may not search my home without a warrant."

 

[robhof]

As mentioned above: by giving permission, anything they find that They think is illegal is fair game. If they get a warrant, they have to specify what they are looking for and ignore all else. This I was reminded of by my nephew; a county sheriff deputy.

 

[jim357]

Since you asked, I will give an answer. I do note that you really may not want to hear my answer because you did later say something about not having that many layers of tin foil in your hat. That is a term usually reserved as an insult for someone with whom you strongly disagree.
When the police ask to search your house, you do not have to be rude, I would not have been rude. I would, however, not have allowed the search. I also would not have even invited them in the house. Do I dislike police - NO I DO NOT. Also, you do know, don't you, that that scale you use to measure your gun powder is also the same type used by drug dealers to measure drugs. And that gun powder may or may not be good for a bomb.
As I said I would not have been rude, just something like, Well officer ______, if you are looking for drugs you will have to look in every little corner of the house in all of my private places. I am sure that you would not let a stranger come into your house and do that. I am a very private person, so no search.
Another thing that I can not help thinking about, legal advice on the internet. A guy posting under the name of Potatojudge asks a legal question and a guy under the name of jim357 answers, well how good can that legal advice be. You tell us that you are an MD, but I still will not ask you on the internet for medical advice. But I am off the subject. I would not have allowed the search and when they leave I would call my lawyer for real legal advice. If they arrest you, then it is for sure that they would have arrested you anyway. They did not arrest you for the drug scale. but then again, day ain't over.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I guess your lucky they didn't plant illicit drugs in your house, or actually be there on a ruse, so they could gather useful information for BATF, who might still be checking gun traffic leads in your border state. If it was mine, I'd be at the PD within a few days with an attorney, wanting to see the "complaint". After a complaint has been investigated and completed, your attorney should be able to access all information about it, maybe even discovering that a "false" complaint had been filed, and instigating police action back against a (possibly hostile) complainant.

 

[PX15]

FWIW:

In decades past I would pick up a hitchhiker in a heartbeat....

I don't anymore.

In decades past I would have invited the officers in and probably offered them a coke or glass of tea..

I don't do that anymore either.

A good friend of mine, a retired leo, who was also a firearms instructor at FLETC in Brunswick, Ga. and I were talking one night about such things (particularly when your vehicle is stopped and the leo asked if he can "search" your car), and he said NEVER give permission...

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

Don't be rude, don't look for trouble..

But..

Just say respectfully something of the nature "officer I do not give you permission to search my vehicle, but I'm in no hurry if you'd like to take the time and trouble to get a warrant".

A friendly demeanor and respectful attitude, even when you are declining the fishing trip is not a bad thing.

Just personal opinion,

Jesse

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i've had the cops over quite a few times once or twice when i called but usually in response to something a room mate or one of the young men i counsel has done. i treat them the same as anyone else. try to tell the truth and i've gotten good results. as a young man i attracted a great deal of contact of an unpleasant sort and even then i got great mileage outa polite truth where possible and polite use of the 5th amendment where the truth might cost me. nary a kitten stomped. ymmv

 

[G.A.Pster]

Come back with a warent.