COPS

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Yeah, like on the TV show. It's about midnight Fri. night, and I'm walking into Safeway. There's some guy standing just inside the door making threats, gestures, and provocations to some other guy about 20 feet away, inside the store. Without the automatic door opening, I can hear the taunts, see the gestures. This "perp" is getting aggressive and escalating the confrontation. The other guy is just backing off and keeping his mouth shut. Perp is ranting, loud, aggressive.

We have a lot of "tweakers" in the county. The perp looks like a tweaker" -- that's a methamphetamine user. Anyway, I haul out the cell phone and load up 911 on the speed dial. Left hand for the phone, all I need to do is push the "dial" button. Right hand is holding a pocket 32 ACP in my utility vest. (Like a fishing vest, for the most part.)

Perp moves toward the second guy, aggressive. The checker, a woman, moves in between them . . . probably not a good idea, but she's half decent at distracting the perp. Meanwhile two other male customers are standing by, ready to jump in. Police dept. is literally across the street.

I dial 911 just to be safe. The woman Safeway clerk has already called 911 and dispatch has a car on the way. Dispatcher tells me to stay on the phone and let her get an audio recording of this confrontation.

Now the perp decides since I'm on the phone, he'll taunt me. I can see the flashing lights of the squad car against the windows/door of the store. It's a really small town, Friday/Saturday morning. Police patrol this area heavily because it's the only thing open this time of night.

Now it gets tense, the perp comes after me and I move back to the door and outside. Two squad cars outside and "troops on the ground." The perp charges me outside the door -- and gets tackled by two police, he's on the ground, cuffed and put in the squad car.

The police know this guy, have been looking for a reason to haul his beligerent butt into jail for a short-term visit. Another officer checks me out, wants to know if I'm OK. There are three of us at the store who are pretty shaken up, and a couple more witnesses.

I mention to the officer -- It's a small town and I recognize him -- that I'm glad I put my gun in my pocket rather than leaving it in the car. He takes me over to the perp in the squad car, rolls down the window a crack and says to this suspect, "You realize the guy you chased into the parking lot had a handgun in his pocket?"

Perp looks shocked, speechless. Tweakers never expect the person they're taunting might shoot them.

Law says I need to "move away" and "de-escalate" the confrontation. More room to run outside than in the store, and besides, I'd seen the lights from the police cars. That's a long ways from actually shooting in defense, but it got my heart racing.

The gun was still in the pocket when I went out the door, in hand. The sergeant at the scene noted that if I'd had the gun in hand, in full view that it would really complicate their response. They'd have "two males in a fight, one with a gun." He emphasized just what I've been told repeatedly in defense classes. You don't show the concealed gun until you're shooting it in defense. If you draw your gun, you're viewed by police as a "threat" even if you're defending yourself.

Now I get to be a witness in a criminal prosecution.
 
Unless I misunderstood you, Why did you walk into this situation? It would appear you should have stayed outside the store. Otherwise, I would say you handled the situation well. I also don't know how happy I'd be for the cops to tell the scumbag I was armed.

Scott
 
Only thing different is that I wouldn't have even told the cops I was armed.. They don't need to know unless it was used or presented on the scene.. You handled it really well in my opinion.. I have learned that there are always those guys who scream and yell and make a big scene trash talking no matter where you go .. It never fails.. The funny thing is they are usually the ones who get their @$$ kicked (In cases I have seen).. It's the quiet ones that you often have to worry about ..
 
Unless I misunderstood you, Why did you walk into this situation? It would appear you should have stayed outside the store. Otherwise, I would say you handled the situation well. I also don't know how happy I'd be for the cops to tell the scumbag I was armed.

Scott


I couldn't see who he was taunting until I got inside. I would have not become involved had not the female checker decided to intervene. It's her role in the grocery to manage "incidents" and she seemed to have it under control. Nonetheless I called 911 because the police are across the street, and better safe than wishing I had called it in.

Local police know I have a CCW. It's a small town and I sit on the board for the gun range used by the police, sheriff, Nat'l Guard, Coast Guard, NRA/ civilians, etc.

This guy has been rounded up before. Evidently he gets high and harasses people. The local police are trying to impress upon him that in this town, people are armed, and it's just a matter of time before he gets shot. Rationale, which I get from follow up now is that if/when he gets shot police want to be able to testify that he'd been "warned."

As I say, I knew the police were outside. I suspect the "jerk" did not. I knew he'd get nabbed if I went through the door, but also that he'd be moving away from the (smaller, female) grocery clerk, and his first "victim." And outside, I'd have a clear shot at him even if the police were not there -- but they were there.

Finally, having him chase me outside provides police with "cause" to arrest. Had the police not been there, I'd be playing "stay away" with him by putting display racks, grocery carts, check stands between me and him. This guy is the typical "wind bag" who likes to threaten and posture, but doesn't get to the point of actually swinging at someone. But he's going to jail now. City Attorney informs me he was in possession of controlled substances.

-- Actually, I like the idea that the jerks on the street realize the locals are armed. We don't have break-ins locally because the tweakers realize that home owners are armed -- for ducks, geese, deer, elk . . . and jerks.
 
I think that you handled yourself well but I don't know why it was the cop's business to tell anyone you were armed. You have lost an edge if there is ever another encounter between you and BG. BG may behave differently now that he knows you have a gun, he may be more violent.

I wouldn't trust any Tweakers to be rational, especially if he's coming down from a week-long meth binge and is looking for some quick cash.

.32ACP may not stop someone on meth.
 
I'm sure you'll spend a lot of brain-time reviewing that whole situation and deciding what you did well and what you maybe didn't. That's for you to work out with yourself.

I will, however, say that I'm glad you weren't injured and the bad guy got some "justice jewelery" to wear for a while.

That makes it a happy ending!
 
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Did you get hurt? No,
Did you end up in jail? No,
Did anyone else (innocent) get hurt? No,
Did the bad guy go to jail/hospital/funeral home? Yes,


Sounds like you did good, go home sleep well tonight, do not second guess yourself silly over it.
 
I am glad everything turned out okay; but it does bother me that the officer felt the need to taunt the suspect by tellign him you were armed... But, no lasting harm done. He'll probably be locked up for a spell (he did Assault you, I'd say...) and is unlikyl to remember you once he does get out.

What really bugs me is that the '[l]aw says [you] need to "move away" and "de-escalate" the confrontation.' I am so glad I live in a state where common-law (now backed by statute) allows me to stand my ground.
 
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