Just how accurate are handguns...

[gwnorth]

How do you prove the bullet went through the hole in the washer?

In one movie they put a postage stamp over a washer to show the shot went through. In the History Channel episode, they went modern and caught the shot on high speed video - slowed down you could clearly see the .22 round going through the hole (they did not say how many takes it took to both make the shot, and catch in the high speed camera's field of view )

 

[gwnorth]

I just got finished watching The Outlaw Josie Wales and Clint Eastwood finish off bad guy after bad guy with his revolvers. And I got to thinking how many of the gun antics in movies are myths (cough, Wanted) and some might actually happen. How accurate are handguns? If you were good enough, could you really take down moving targets while on the run yourself? Are there people good enough to hit a target (say the size of a quarter) whenever they wanted without aiming down the sights or going into a stance? I'm new to the whole target shooting crowd, so I'd like to hear your opinions of just how accurate people can be (point shooting or moving while shooting anyways).

Much of the accuracy stuff is at least half believable. There are historical records of amazing shots from horseback on the move and so forth. And the history channel has done a couple of shows now showing that (with enough practice), yes, many of those "unbelievable" shots are really possible.

What I always find amazing in old west movies is how deadly single rounds are, especially black powder ball rounds from smooth bore pistols. You hear on the news of bad guys surviving multiple rounds of of 9mm, .40s&w and so on, yet a single round from a .36 Navy Colt anywhere in the torso seems near instantly fatal! We should all ditch our modern weapons and go back to percussion pistols - those were clearly man killers

 

[tipoc]

Look at it another way how does Kobe Bryant make all those hoops while on the move? 1). natural talent. 2) practice. 3) it's what they do full time which means more and more practice.

Most of us aren't that good. But with the proper gun and load we can get good enough for many normal tasks you'd want to use a handgun for.

tipoc

 

[CWL]

...a single round from a .36 Navy Colt anywhere in the torso seems near instantly fatal! We should all ditch our modern weapons and go back to percussion pistols - those were clearly man killers

Well, bullet wounds were deadlier back then, but it usually took a while for blood poisoning, infection or peritonitis to take affect.

 

[MCgunner]

My contender can put 10 rounds into 3" at 200 yards off the bench. I've done it. Some are even more accurate than that! I've seen 3/4 MOA .22 hornet contenders.

I should put the scope on my 7mm TCU barrel, match grade handloads. Used to shoot IHMSA with it. I be it'd out shoot my .30-30 barrel with the scope on it.

 

[GojuBrian]

Most modern 3-5" pistols are plenty acurate within 15yards if you practice enough.

A pistol's accuracy is just not comparable to a rifle. (unless it's a TC or along those lines ofcourse)

 

[JohnKSa]

A good quality off-the-shelf centerfire repeating handgun will usually shoot groups that are 8-12MOA. That's 2" to 3" groups at 25 yards.

Most any decent off-the-shelf centerfire repeating handgun will hold 32MOA groups. (8" @ 25 yds)

If you get an out-of-the box centerfire repeating handgun that will consistently shoot 4MOA (1" @ 25yds) and you paid less than $1K for it you can consider yourself pretty lucky.

That's just the handguns. The ammo & shooter also figure into the equation heavily. If you go to the average shooting range, you'd be convinced that only a very large animal would be in danger from a handgun shooter at 25 yards range, but as in any "sport", the skill level varies considerably.

High speed camera slowed down to a few frames per second ...

The high-speed footage was to satisfy the curiosity of mere mortals. Tom Knapp knew he'd made the shot before they looked at the tape. Think about that for awhile...

 

[btg3]

High speed camera slowed down to a few frames per second ...

My Dad used to flip coins in the air and shoot them. Sometimes he'd flip a large washer and could shoot thru the hole. The gun was a Daisy Eagle BB gun, shot from the hip. The BB was slow enough to observe it pass thru the washer if you were properly positioned. My Dad would patiently shoot thru the washer numerous times until I got to where I could see it. Of course, a few of those time he hit the washer instead of the hole. I still have that Daisy Eagle.

 

[kamagong]

None of the real old-time gunfighters were anywhere near as fast or accurate as todays best using todays equipment.

I wouldn't go that far. Ever hear of Jelly Bryce?
http://www.donrearic.com/twodeadlymen.html

 

[tipoc]

Below is a pic of a S&W post war M&P snubby which I fired at 25 yards from a sandbag rest and the groups it made with two different brands of commercial ammo. The squares are 3x3". The flyers are mine and not the guns. I've seen other shooters do as well standing.



Below a post war S&W .357 Magnum at 25 yards. The two flyers are mine and not the guns. The box 3x3". Another shooter could do better.



Put a scope on a hand gun and the groups shrink considerably. Brace yourself against a tree, car lamp post etc. and accurate shooting is possible.

Folks can learn to shoot on the move as well.

tipoc

 

[HB]

It takes a lot to get a handgun to shoot like a rifle too. Presumably manufactures believe that handguns are used for 25 yards and under, generally for targets or self defense. If it can hold 4'', its accurate enough.

If you buy a pistol that is intended for longer ranges, they can be comparable to rifle accuracy. Air pistols made for the Olympics shoot the same size groups as air rifles do. Both are shot at 10 meters.

How much accuracy do you need or can you pay for basically becomes the issue. 1911 wadguns can shoot 1''-2'' at 50 yards with enough money and load work, but you don't need that at 20 yards shooting at paper plates
I have a feeling that my browning buckmark will outshoot some rifle though

HB

 

[MCgunner]

I strive for accuracy. That's why I've been through several medium frame 4" .357s until I found one, a Taurus 66, that shoots 1" groups at 25 yards with its fav .38s or .357s. It's better than my M19 was, my Security Six by a long shot, and my Rossi 971. The others are all gone, the Taurus is in my collection. You don't like 'em? Cool. You won't want mine, then.

I have others, a pair of Blackhawks, 4 5/8" .45 Colt and a 6.5" .357 that will shoot that well. I even have a .45 ACP Ruger P90 that will shoot under 2". Who'd a thunk THAT? My best 1911 didn't get close to that and it's 100 percent reliable with everything I feed it. Amazing.

My search for accurate firearms has taken a while, but 4 moa is not impossible to achieve with a revolver, let alone a single shot pistol. It's a little harder to get that sort of accuracy from an auto, but you can get close. You can get better with stuff like the Smith and Wesson models 41 and 52, but that's sort of cheating, target guns.

A good carry should groups into 4" off the bench at 25 yards. I've read it and I do believe it. If it's more accurate than that, GREAT! LOL But, my snubbies have always bettered that and my Kel Tec P11 slightly betters that. You can get that sort of accuracy in a pocket gun, believe it or not. Your ability to SHOOT it might not be that good, I'm just speaking of the hardware.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Nice shootin' MCG!

 

[Slamfire]

I what reads like a "classic movie" gun fight, Wild Bill Hickock shot a man through the heart at 50 yards. Considering his opponent was also armed, and Wild Bill was shooting a cap and ball pistol, that feat is just amazing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Bill_Hickok-Davis_Tutt_shootout

Of course the characters in the movies are so much better

 

[Ditchtiger]

I've a 55g drum at 225 yards and can hit it 50% of the time using 38 specials in a Taurus snub-nose ported 357 mag.
6 out of 6 can be done with my 686 and an Annaconda with a little concentration.

 

[rivraton]

Quote:
...a single round from a .36 Navy Colt anywhere in the torso seems near instantly fatal! We should all ditch our modern weapons and go back to percussion pistols - those were clearly man killers

Quote:
Well, bullet wounds were deadlier back then, but it usually took a while for blood poisoning, infection or peritonitis to take affect.
__________________
Vae Victis

One very important factor you overlook is that cap and ball revolvers fire a "dead soft" ball @ 900+ fps that expands very rapidly and leaves a large exit wound..
a reasonably well placed hit usualy is instantly fatal...

 

[flipajig]

I do beleve that the guns are more accurat than the shooter. some are made to be more accurat than others. I did see Bob lundan shoot a balloon at 100 yds with a 45 darrenger on inpossible shots. I also beleve that pratice makes perfict thats why im still shooting..

 

[JohnKSa]

One very important factor you overlook is that cap and ball revolvers fire a "dead soft" ball @ 900+ fps that expands very rapidly and leaves a large exit wound..
a reasonably well placed hit usualy is instantly fatal...

Elmer Keith, in Sixguns, made a comment to the effect that cap & ball revolvers seemed to be far more effective on humans than they ought to be.

 

[Stormshotty]

I've got about 6" groups with my Ruger Mk3 at 15 yards sitting (about 40 rounds a target), still need lots of practice. I can't seem to hit the target at all with my Arcus 98...even the sights are easier.

 

[tkopp]

I do 4" groups at 100y with my mkII competition and 2x scope when braced on a bag. I'm convinced I can do better with more magnification or new glasses.

 

[equalizer]

revolver/auto ILLINOIS

Just trying to help I've got Dan Wesson) 8"match barrel.
Next a pm7 .45acp an wesson. itcome all the way with custom parts/
Check 'em out

 

[Keb]

I did a pair of prairie dogs with a Ruger Mark III 22/45 at 73 yards, then 2 weeks later watched my friend Jimmy shoot my WWII Sauer 38H at an iron pig target (12x18) and hit it on his first and only shot. Of course, when I tried, I missed that 100 yard shot.

 

[Stormshotty]

One of the problems for me is that as the targets start getting beyond 15-25 yds, the dot I'm aiming for becomes really really small and it's hard to keep it centered on it. Is that where I should get a scope?

 

[sweet45]

I thought my 1911's were very accurate until I shot my Buckmark 22. Wow! Talk about accurate.

 

[f4t9r]

I just got finished watching The Outlaw Josie Wales and Clint Eastwood finish off bad guy after bad guy with his revolvers.

I need to see that. I love those two guys. LOL !!!!!