Justice officials in "Panic Mode" over failed Gun Program

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Looks like the Fallguy doesn't want to go down without a fight.




I wonder if he will be found dead of suicide or an untimely accident? (Just like the whistlerblower in the current Murdoch scandal today).





http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/0...fast-and-furious-accuses-holder-stonewalling/



ATF Chief Admits Mistakes in 'Fast and Furious,' Accuses Holder Aides of Stonewalling Congress

Published July 18, 2011

| FoxNews.com

WASHINGTON -- The head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has admitted that his agency, in at least one instance, allowed sales of high-powered weapons without intercepting them -- and he accuses his superiors at the Justice Department of stonewalling Congress to protect political appointees in the scandal over those decisions.
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Where it goes from the rational to the irrational is when Innocent Until Proven Guilty becomes Guilty Until Proven Innocent If I Don't Like You.
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I freely admit to not liking Eric Holder's policies on guns, but I do not think that pointing out that he should have opened Senator Grassley's letter of January 31st and taken action when he read it is at all conspiratorial.

It's just advocating a minimal level of competence for our Attorney General. His statement in May that he learned of the scandal only a few weeks before is a lie to Congress or an admission of incompetence.

I can't think of a third explanation. Can anyone?
 
Don't forget:

PEOPLE LIE!

This is a fact. One challenge here for all of us is to keep to the facts. I believe there is evidence to suggest that the system will pursue this issue. Hopefully their will be evidence to determine who is lying here.

When Issa's committee reconvenes to discuss Fast and Furious you will want to watch the hearings. My bet is he will schedule this hearing after this budget mess is settled.

Here are some relevant questions for the day:

Will the administration fire Ken Melson as a result of the disclosures in the Issa/Grassley Letter dated July 18th?

Will the DOJ disclose the data identified in this letter (i.e. the "smoking gun")? When?

Will Holder fire the DAG? Obama fire Holder?

IMO, the only way to defuse this situation for the Dems and Gun Control advocates at this point is to provide full disclosure ASAP and take their lumps. Their is now testimony that a cover up has occurred. The longer this cover up goes on the the wider the net will be cast to implicate those promoting gun control as active participants in this situation. The longer the administration continues to stonewall the more politicians will painted by this cover up.

We should be watching the gun control advocates on Capitol Hill. Will they attack this letter or hide and make no comment?
 
WASHINGTON -- The head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has admitted that his agency, in at least one instance, allowed sales of high-powered weapons without intercepting them -- and he accuses his superiors at the Justice Department of stonewalling Congress to protect political appointees in the scandal over those decisions. Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson made the disclosures about the so-called Operation Fast and Furious in an interview with congressional investigators looking into the controversial anti-gunrunning initiative.
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...Removed Copyrighted Material...

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07...#ixzz1SYqI3Ld8
 
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Definition of CONSPIRACY
1: the act of conspiring together
2a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators



it doesnt seem that difficult to me for two people to have conspired to make Guns the focus, not those who actually broke the Laws....it only takes Two to tango....obama, and holder make a nice pair, to have conspired and according to a youtube video, obama did just that in 2009.....heres sufficent proof for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFrApLNmjtk from project gun runner it seems to have morphed into Fast and Furious....and then out of control......
 
I see the ATF transfering guilt to dealers and buyers.....and I find that repugnant and repulsive, I find that few Government officials will ever see a prosecutor from the witness chair, and that isnt acceptable.......to push buyers and dealers into violating laws for some obscure purpose is Not acceptable to then roll over on them and take them down as if they had conjured this deal up all on their own.......
 
Next Oversight Hearing set for July 26

Witnesses:
Mr. Carlos Canino ATF Acting Attaché to Mexico
Mr. Darren Gil Former ATF Attaché to Mexico
Mr. Jose Wall ATF Senior Special Agent Tijuana, Mexico
Mr. Lorren Leadmon ATF Intelligence Operations Specialist
Mr. William Newell Former ATF Special Agent in Charge Phoenix Field Division
Mr. William McMahon ATF Deputy Assistant Director for Field Operations (West, including Phoenix and Mexico)
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(Newell is the one who replied "Absolutely NOT!" (or words to that effect) when asked whether there was gunwalking by the ATF.)
 
I see the ATF transfering guilt to dealers and buyers.....and I find that repugnant and repulsive, I find that few Government officials will ever see a prosecutor from the witness chair, and that isnt acceptable.......to push buyers and dealers into violating laws for some obscure purpose is Not acceptable to then roll over on them and take them down as if they had conjured this deal up all on their own.......
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I think that this exact thing happens a lot more than most people realize, in other areas besides guns as well.
 
In order for Fast and Furious to be pulled off the US Attorney for the region would have been informed. Strange that no one in congress seems to be questioning that person.
 
alsaqr said:
In order for Fast and Furious to be pulled off the US Attorney for the region would have been informed. Strange that no one in congress seems to be questioning that person.
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I would not say they are in the clear. I would not want my name on this list.

Recent letter from Congressional investigators to AG Holder:

Dear Attorney General Holder:

As our investigation in Operation Fast and Furious has progressed, we have learned that senior officials at the Department of Justice (DOJ), including Senate-confirmed political appointees, were unquestionably aware of the implementation of this reckless program. Therefore it is necessary to review communications between and among these senior officials. As such, please provide all records relating to communications between and among the following individuals regarding Operation Fast and Furious:

1. David Ogden, Former Deputy Attorney General;

2. Gary Grindler, Officer of the Attorney General and former Acting Deputy Attorney General;

3. James Cole, Deputy Attorney General;

4. Lanny Breuer, Assistant Attorney General;

5. Kenneth Blanco, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

6. Jason Weinstein, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

7. John Keeney, Deputy Assistant Attorney General;

8. Matt Axelrod, Associate Deputy Attorney General;

9. Ed Siskel, Former Associate Deputy Attorney General;

10. Brad Smith, Office of the Deputy Attorney General;

11. Kevin Carwhile, Section Chief, Capitol Case Unit; and

12. Joseph Cooley, Criminal Fraud Section.

These records should include e-mails, memoranda, briefing papers, and handwritten notes. Additionally, any records related to communications referring to a large firearms trafficking case within the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) or in Phoenix should be included in any production.

Please provide this information no later than July 18, 2011, at noon. If you have any questions regarding this request, please contact Tristan Leavitt in Ranking Member Grassley's office at (202) 224-5225 or Henry Kerner of Chairman Issa's Committee staff at (202) 225-5074. I look forward to receiving your response.

Sincerely,

Darrell Issa, Chairman, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

Charles Grassley, Ranking Member, Senate Committee on the Judiciary

cc: The Honorable Elijah E. Cummings, Ranking Member, House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

The Honorable Patrick J. Leahy, Chairman, U.S. Senate Committee on the Judiciary
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HD Fboy said:
(off-topic poliltical stuff)

This Fast and Furious business is very bad. It highlights just how politicized our system has gotten. But is is not without precedent. Look at Climate Change.

Hopefully the result of Fast and Furious will be a total debunking of gun control. Well we can hope can't we.
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The reason that climate change is politicized is because the opposition is led by people who don't want it to be about the science. Just like the anti-gun people who refuse to look at the evidence that RKBA doesn't increase crime, the climate change deniers want to politicize the issue because the facts don't agree with their position.

The hope for F&F to be a debunking of all gun control is unrealistic. It is setting yourself up for disappointment. A failure in a law enforcement agency doesn't automatically mean that we shouldn't have anyone enforcing laws, and I hope that most people recognize this.

P.S. Next time, take more effort not to derail the thread with off-topic political rants.
 
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[Mod Talk: STICK TO THE FACTS OF THIS SITUATION. We are not going to debate alternative governmental systems, liberals -vs. conservatives, other great conspiracy theories you've known and loved, the antics perpetrated by any member on other sites, Nazis, the value of higher education, the weather, or the price of tea in China.]
 
If the State Department is into the wholesale gunwalking business, does that go in this thread or another one?

Phil Jordan, a former director of the DEA's El Paso Intelligence Center and a former CIA operative, said the Zetas have shipped large amounts of weapons through the El Paso area.

...


Robert "Tosh" Plumlee, a former CIA contract pilot, supported Jordan's allegations and said the Zetas allegedly also purchased property in the Columbus-Palomas border region to stash weapons and other contraband.


...


"The military task force became concerned that its information about arms smuggling was being compromised," Plumlee said. "From the intel, it appears that a company was set up in Mexico to purchase weapons through the U.S. Direct Commercial Sales program, and that the company may have had a direct link to the Zetas."

Under the Direct Commercial Sales program, the U.S. State Department regulates and licenses businesses to sell weapons and defense services and training for export. Last year, according to U.S. statistics, the program was used to provide Mexico $416.5 million worth of weapons and equipment, including military-grade weaponry.

The program is different from the U.S. Foreign Military Sales program, which operates on a government-to-government basis.
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Holder should not resign, Fast and Furious investigation only reveals the need for more gun control. If there was wrongdoing by our government, it is certainly not something that is any business of the Congressional government oversight committee. Their proper role is to push for more gun control, not see how the government has been working.
 
Government Refuses To Explain How Felons Bought Fast And Furious Guns

according to court records reviewed by Fox News, two of the 20 defendants indicted in the Fast and Furious investigation have felony convictions and criminal backgrounds that experts say, at the very least, should have delayed them buying a single firearm. Instead, the duo bought dozens of guns on multiple occasions while federal officials watched on closed-circuit cameras.
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The next Oversight Committee hearing promises to be interesting...
 
Holder should not resign, Fast and Furious investigation only reveals the need for more gun control. If there was wrongdoing by our government, it is certainly not something that is any business of the Congressional government oversight committee. Their proper role is to push for more gun control, not see how the government has been working.
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Absolutely right -- all you people need to calm down and drink your Kool-aid.:cuss:
 
If people would stop drinking Kool-aid, we wouldn't have to read posts which are certain that F&F is a conspiracy planned by Obama.
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Yeah it's not like one of his advisers said they would create a crisis if they needed one.
 
Fast & Furious: The man who knew too little

Fallout from Tuesday’s third Capitol Hill hearing into Operation Fast and Furious, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ botched gun trafficking sting operation, will continue thanks to new revelations, none of which came from the man on whose watch the investigation broke down...


http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/fast-furious-the-man-who-knew-too-little
 
LongTimeGone said:
So, what do you suppose the Obama "under the radar" processes quoted by Sarah Brady might reference?

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...ims-obama-pushing-under-the-radar-gun-control
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Brady is not an honest source when it comes to guns. That statement by Sarah Brady places the Whitehouse in a lose-lose situation. Deny it if it's false, and they only entrench the paranoid conspiracy theorists. Confirm it if it's true, and they divert attention from the important issues. Not to mention being completely counterproductive to the idea of being "under the radar".
 
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