justifiable poaching?

[oklahoma caveman]

is there a such thing?

personally i can see under certain circumstances where if placed in a situation like: i just got layed off work and MUST feed my children; that i would feel poaching a deer justifiable. whats your take?

would you folks mind giving your reason behind your beliefs? especially the no response

 

[ArmedBear]

Around here, poaching a deer isn't justifiable morally. There are very few deer. A few meals could rob the area of its entire population, and a lot of meals for others.

Somewhere that deer are really plentiful and mainly a road hazard, and F&G "management" is just going through the motions, I wouldn't hold it against someone who took one for food in such a situation.

I mean, if you're lost and starving in the wilderness, I think that it's legal to do all sorts of things that violate fish and game law, like trapping fish and eating protected species. F&G management is very important for a number of reasons, but human life is still paramount, in the eyes of the law AFAIK.

 

[oklahoma caveman]

in a survival situation yea i would do anything to stay alive. but im meaning like you know somebody who kills a deer occasionaly without checking it in or without the proper license weapon etc. but he is only doing it for the meat to feed his family. not i repeat not poaching for a trophy which in my opinion is never justifiable

 

[Bearhands]

I'd think it would be simpler to ask the landowner if he'd allow you to hunt for food rather than trespass and risk legal ramifications

 

[ArmedBear]

A while ago now, in school, I studied population biology.

In some situations, killing a few deer out of season here and there means wiping them out in a large area, or it can. In others, e.g., places where deer are everywhere and are far more likely to be killed by a truck or die of cold than be shot by a hunter, you're really not hurting anything or anyone if you take one.

That's what I meant. The moral question, to me, depends on the situation. It's immoral to wipe out the deer population. That's like stealing. But is it really immoral when you hurt nobody?

Every individual has to decide for him/herself, really.

That said, I follow F&G laws. But I'm blessed with all I need right now, too. It would be immoral for ME to poach, as it stands, here and now. I won't do it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I voted no! Mainly cause there's just about always some kind of edible critter in season on public land that wouldn't require breakin the law or robbing someone else of their game. If worst comes to worse fishing season is always open. Or better yet if you're not too lazy to hunt obviously your not too lazy to go out and get a JOB! There's no excuse for not being employed in this country, you might just have to settle for a job you don't like.

besides if you're relying on killing a deer to eat you may end up boiling your boots before your next meal

 

[Zoogster]

Well technicaly most animal populations that were decimated were done so for food. Many animals that went extinct in the last couple hundred years were either an easy source of food for new settlers to a region or island someplace, or had a pretty fur coat.

During the depression in the 30's the deer population was wiped out in many places from people poaching for meat. They were not doing it for sport, or for a trophy or hide. They did it for meat.

Well there is far more people in the nation now than then, and far less land that wildlife inhabits. So in a similar situation today wildlife would go extinct within a short time.

If every person living below the poverty line hunted for all the meat they needed, then the wild population would not exist. Consider the amount of livestock raised and butchered which exceeds the number of wild big game that exists.

So while it is easy to understand, if caught you will still face criminal prosecution.
What if you got stranded someplace? Offroading accident, plane crash, etc? Then breaking the law to eat would be one of the last concerns, but you would still be eligable for prosecution.

Hunting is a recreational past time. The human population is far too large now to have even a small fraction of it killing for sustenance.

The unemployment rate in the US in 2006 was 4.8%, one of the lowest rates in a long time. Yet close to 5% of a population of over 300,000,000 hunting for thier meat would decimate the wild population quickly. If every individual unemployed got just 1 deer a month, the wild population would cease to exist in short order.

 

[oklahoma caveman]

krochus i live in a rural area where there are few jobs and the ones that can be had dont pay much. in many cases less than the cost of living.

and i never said it was right or moral or legal but can you honestly say that if your family is starving, for whatever reason, that if you saw a deer, elk, etc standing in your pasture that you would not shoot it?

and for the sake of argument say that you can legally kill 4 deer with appropriate tags and all. what if you couldnt afford the extra expense of the tags from an already decimated budget, and youonly killed the 4 your allowed without checking them in

 

[retrieverman]

Justifiable poaching is an oxymoron.

 

[oklahoma caveman]

how so? it may be against the law(hence poaching) but it could possibly be justified under some extreme circumstances(hence justifiable).

but really whats with people who get on a thread just to post some bull **** that has no bearing to what the thread is about?

 

[DogBonz]

During the Depression

My Grandfather and my Great Uncles feed their families with venison and game birds. If it were not for this source of food, much of which I assumed was "poached", who knows how our family would have made out.

 

[R.W.Dale]

i live in a rural area where there are few jobs

Then MOVE! after all we are talking about surviving

the ones that can be had dont pay much. in many cases less than the cost of living.

So there are JOBS in the area!!! And do they not pay enough to buy some FOOD???

That's the problem people don't want to settle for a JOB they want a career. That's why we're being overrun by illegals!

Shooting another mans deer on his property is NO different than shooting his cows. It's stealing plain and simple and being a thief is NEVER justifiable. Neither in the eyes of God or man

what if you couldnt afford the extra expense of the tags from an already decimated budget,

You go and apply for FOOD stamps possibly swinging by the Food bank on the way. Then you stop by the nearest fast food resturant, chicken plant, lumber yard or wal-mart and apply for a JOB!

 

[Charles S]

Shooting another mans deer is NO different than shooting his cows.

I did not realize that anyone owned deer. Other than on a high fence game ranch.

Just because they are on your property at this time does not mean they are your deer. That is unless you fence them in.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Shooting another mans deer on his property is NO different than shooting his cows. It's stealing plain and simple and being a thief is NEVER justifiable. Neither in the eyes of God or man

And if it's on your property well...if you own property than you should sell it and buy some food. Cause if your that hard up for something to eat you won't be able to keep the taxes up anyhow!

Like I said fishing season is always open. this thread is little more than a thinly veiled excuse to justify poaching just cause the OP has made a bunch of bad decisions regarding his employment and as a result happens to be broke that week

 

[NeenachGuy]

I voted "no." Poaching is not justifiable, unless you're talking about poaching an egg.

 

[nerfsrule2]

I lived in North West Montana for 5 years. I knew people that killed Wildlife out of season,not just for food, but to survive.

 

[Blackfork]

Moral laws?

I think most governments, local, state and federal, have long since lost any claim on being moral. Hard enough for them to claim to be even "fair" or "just." They don't even seem to be bound by their own laws and regulations.

In Texas, there are so many deer that they could be de-classified as game animals and listed as vermin. Across the US in general the situation is the same. More whitetail deer in the lower 48 than there EVER have been.

That said, they are the state's deer, not yours. The state may not be just or fair, but it's pretty dang powerful. Back through history the King doesn't tolerate his deer being poached by peasants.

I don't have an opinion on this. I expect to kill about 15 deer this season, and am hunting through an extended season (end of Feb) due to laws passed to facilitate tax breaks for certain landowners. The day before the season, I didn't shoot a rather large buck on my own land, due to fear of the state. More trouble than it is worth worrying about.

 

[Caimlas]

For me, at least locally, it's a matter of thinking along the lines of: is it moral to not cull some of the animal surplus? Honestly, you've got to consider what a cold, dry winter and/or a poor harvest of their primary foods will do to a population already straining against the upper limits of what the local ecosystem can support.

I'm talking about: herds of deer and antelope (15+ in one small area, all over the place) and flocks of pheasants (40? dunno, hard to count that many that quickly). Yes, that's bountiful game, but if an area has had a series of good seasons (warm winters, etc.) those animals will be in for a world of pain that winter, or the coming spring.

And no, I haven't poached anything.

 

[cracked butt]

I grew up in a rural area where paoching deer for food was very common, its no big deal, there's a huge overabundance of deer in my state. Its done often but its not something that people talk about.I won't fault anyone for doing so.

The other kind of poaching is spotlighting bucks with big racks and shooting them at night- usually the head gets cut off in a hurry and the rest is left to lay. People who do this should experience the joy of prison sodomy.

 

[ArmedBear]

Caimlas is right.

Of course, not everyone in the field knows or even thinks at all about game management. The point is, it's not always cut and dry, morally.

And like him, I don't poach. In this environment, it's stealing game from everyone else to do so, not just culling an animal that will die in Winter anyway.

 

[Regolith]

Only in a survival situation (i.e. you've been lost in the woods for several days and you need food to stay alive). Otherwise, no.

 

[1911 guy]

I say yes.

If it was a matter of eating or not eating, I'd look the other way.

However, extra stuff (like internet service) would need to be sacrificed before I'd consider it morally justifiable to poach. $75 a month for cable and internet will buy a whole lot of hotdogs and beans. Get rid of the cell phone and you could buy buns, milk and kielbasa and kraut for Sunday Dinner.

 

[macFarlaine]

If you are starving and need to feed your family..yes.We were a country of poachers once,Robin Hood,we write books about these old guys.
We have poachers now,who poach for financial gain,they are genrally jailed when caught.

 

[dwave]

I look at it like this, Save my life by breaking the law, or Die because I wouldn't. I will break the law and live.

 

[rbernie]

this thread is little more than a thinly veiled excuse to justify poaching just cause the OP has made a bunch of bad decisions regarding his employment and as a result happens to be broke that week

Dang - how did you deduce all of that from the original post? I sure didn't.

In general, I've never lived in areas where wild game was scarce or threatened in any way. In fact, I've spent much of my life in areas where (other than strip or deep shaft mining) there was no local industry and long-haul trucking was about the only way to introduce money into the local economy. Trucks break down, and truckers get paid by the mile. I've known more than a few good folk who got jammed up when their truck threw a significant metal piece onto the road and required their accumulated savings to fix it.

Would I begrudge someone for poaching a deer to feed the brood while the truck gets fixed and they have no income? Eh - I'd probably look the other way and not get overly judgemental about it.

If someone did it for a trophy or because poaching was simply a means of helping save their monthly dole check for beer - I'd probably have a problem looking the other way.