k98 mauser vs. lee enfield

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I'd chose the Mauser over the Enfield No. 5 Jungle Carbine. The carbine was plagued with a 'wandering zero" due to the process used to lighten its weight, and this has been well documented over the years (the Brits spent a lot of time and money to try to correct the problem).

That's coming from a guy who absolutely loves the old Enfields. My top choice would be a good No.4 Enfield.
 
ironvic, there was more of a political reason than a mechanical reason for getting away from the #5mk1. The British Army wanted the SLR, a self loading rifle, like everyone else in the world was going to. They were done with the bolt action as the primary issue battle rifle. However, the #4mk1 was used heavily in Korea.

My #5mk1 Fazakerley will hold a 2" group all day. It is as accurate as many of my other .303's.
 
The sights on military rifles are just plain awful. Exception to this is #4 Enfield with the peep sight. All this can be made equal by getting a mojo replacement rear sight available for most surplus rifles for around $70
 
Don't listen to earplug about these rifles not being accurate or using rounds that because they're old they are not effective. The .30-06 is proof of that. Hell, the 7.92x57 Mauser has taken more of the African Big 5 than any other cartridge.

Go to youtube.com. Search for "mag30th". He'll show you just how accurate these "old" guns can be. Hell, he's the reason I'm now using a Mosin-Nagant out to 400 yards. I can't seem to reload rounds capable of hitting anything beyond that, maybe my scope is moving around or something. But mag30th will prove anyone who says Mil-surps are not good rifle wrong in a heart-beat.


On which rifle to get:

Lee-Enfield. The .303 is good enough for deer and the action is quick. Makes for a great follow-up shot. The Mauser will take a deer, and a Cape Buffalo, and an Elephant, and keep moving. But for North America I think the Enfield is sufficient.
 
Do not know if you have them up there but have seen two down here at reasonable prices.

Australian troops in Vietnam carried Lee Enfield carbines chambered in 7.62 NATO aka .308

If you could find one that sure would solve the ammo problem.

Tom
 
Go with the Mosin, you can buy a cheap one with limited "historical" value, cut the barrel and restock it (or put on a recoil pad), you now have a powerful deer gun, then save your money to buy the mauser or enfeild you want.
 
The mauser 98 action is the most used and copied bolt action in the world. It is also one of the strongest and safest.

The mauser action has taken more big game then all other modern bolt actions combined. All surplus mausers also have new factory loading, so you do not have to use surplus ammunition if you do not want to. I have mausers in 8x57, 7x57, 7.65x53, 7.62x51, 6.5x55. guess what, they will take down anything that walks on this earth..so all the BS being spouted by the elmer fudds who say the Mauser is not a capable platform only show their ignorance.
 
Mauser all the way. 1903 Springfield if given the choice. Enfield Ishapore 308 is my "its OK if I lose it" truck gun.
 
I'd pick the Mauser (I own one and it's no slouch with 196gr ball or 196 gr softpoint) over the .303. I like the heavier bullets and wouldn't hesitate to take mine after elk or bear or moose or whatever.
 
Surplus Mauser ammo seems to be available readily from all the usual suspects for approx 30 cents per round. 7.62x54R is 24-28 cents per round. Both prices include shipping.

8mm is not really that expensive to shoot. Sure it will eventually run out and has been increasing in price, but it ain't hard to find or expensive compared to commercial bubba rounds. You just need to buy 340 - 680 rounds at a time.
 
I recommend a 458 Win mag in a Mauser action. That will do the job and break you of this addiction you will be embarking upon :neener:
 
FYI, Paul Scarlata published a book about military bolt action rifles, and found that personally he experienced the following groups at 100Y (the AR-15 and AK are there for comparison):

AR-15: 2.25"
M1898 Krag-Jorgensen: 2.25"
British #4 Mk2 SMLE: 2.25"
Argentine Mo. 1909 Mauser: 2.75"
US M1917 Enfield: 3.25"
Swedish M/1938 Mauser: 3.25"
Polish-made obr. 1944g Mosin-Nagant: 3.5"
MAC-90 (Chinese AK): 3.75"

This is all with cheap, common surplus.

Personaly, I find the M-N groups much better. Some military surplus rifles (e.g., the Swiss K31) will shoot 1 to 1.5 MOA out of the box.

Yes, you can certainly buy a hunting rifle for the price of one of the above (except for the Mosin and some Mauser 98s) that will be very accurate. Just posting as info.

BTW, 8mm surplus is a whole lot cheaper than .303. In fact, I haven't seen any .303 surplus in a long time and it may be all gone (it has been 60+ years after all!) 7.62x54R surplus is dirt cheap. All three of those calibers are available in commercial loads in the USA.
 
A Mosin Nagant M38 or M44 carbine is a better choice from a price standpoint. The carbines are much shorter.

The 7.62x54R ammo is much less than .303 British and a bit less than 7.92x57 Mauser ammo.

All this being said if you are dead set on either a Mauser or Enfield I would go with a Mauser as it's ammo is less and can still be had in milsurp.

Hope this helps.
 
I would go with a full size Enfield, and I wouldn't be turned off by the length issue. I know a lot of guys how love hunting with these in Alaska and Canada. There's a very long tradition of using them for hunting, in fact. If you can handload, get the WOODLEIGH bullets in .312" The big 215 grain ones have taken every large animal on the planet up to and including elephants.

The Mausers are also fine, but I wouldn't get a parts gun without checking the headspace first. When I was buying a lot of Mausers I used to keep a gauge in my pocket for that purpose.

. Both rifles have the limitation of depending on surplus government ammo that is decades old.

Actually that's not true at all. You can find good quality SP ammo for both, or even better handload it.
 
Shannon,how does the Enfield win over the Mauser when the were both in the same wars?

The essence of the joke is that the Germans lost both wars, and the British won.

In the real world, the Enfield action is something of a dead end, while the Mauser design dominates the high-end rifle market. I lack the technical knowledge to explain why this is the case, but it clearly is.

--Shannon
 
From an engineering point of view I think the later Mauser style actions (depending on pedigree) are stronger than the Enfield and have less potential weak (maintenance) points.

The Indian Gov had to enhance the metallurgy of the Enfield #1 MKIII (became Ishapore) to handle the 308 NATO without self destructing and it was/is only marginal. It cannot safely handle modern 308 Win. The cartridges the Mauser actions have handled without modification are considerably more powerful than the 308 NATO.
 
Since I have little experience I need depend on what my Grandfather told me. In his words the SMLE is a fine weapon that will function as desired but tends to be a 'one trick pony.' The .303 he left me is an accurate weapon that fires a large enough cartridge to harvest whatever game I should desire to harvest.

But his prize possession demonstrates the more versatile nature of the Mauser action. A 'Siamese' Mauser chambered for the 45-70 cartridge the old gentleman loved so well. Something the Enfield was never called to do.

In the end, he gave me the same advice for both rifles and husbands. When you find a good one that works well and is a straight shooter, treasure it no matter what popular opinion might be.

Selena
 
I agree with Cosmoline and would suggest you get a full-size Enfield. In Canada .303 ammo is everywhere as well and it’s more likely to be found in rural shops unlike Mauser ammo which isn’t as common in out-of-the-way places. Although I haven't been back in Canada for over a year I doubt this has changed since then.

The Enfield’s design is to me the most useful design for a bolt-action rifle. It was the first centerfire bolt-action rifle I have ever used for hunting meat to feed myself over an extended period of time (I used mostly shotguns and levers and rimfire prior to using the Enfield) and it will likely be the only bolt I use from now on. Before I used Savage bolt-action .22lr and .22 magnums and Winchester 94’s and when I was first introduced to the Enfield I didn’t really like it. I thought it was too big and clunky and heavy and so on.

The Enfield I had was borrowed from a friend- an old SMLE III* with a modified stock using Winchester 180 grain Power-point shells and at the time I had no choice but to make do with what I thought wasn’t that great of a rifle.

Yet when I went hunting with the Enfield in the mountains my perceptions about the rifle began to change and I almost immediately began to appreciate it’s inherent design. Even though this particular Enfield wasn’t very accurate at longer ranges for whatever reason(s), I don’t think I will ever use another bolt-action rifle for hunting other than the Enfield due to it’s performance in the field. Accuracy to me is something I need to work on with the Enfield’s but it’s not my primary concern though when I return to Canada I would really like to find one that is more accurate and in better condition than the one I was using.

The smoothness, simplicity and durability of the action grew on me. I have yet to use any other rifle action that feels so smooth and natural (I like lever-actions but I think I like the Enfield action better) and I favor simplicity, durability and utility when it comes to guns and hunting equipment. The rifle I used had no clip, so it was basically a single-shot and the smooth fast operation of the bolt allowed me to quickly eject and push in a new round with ease if I missed a first shot and on one occasion I missed a first shot and was able to quickly chamber another round and hit the animal with a quick second shot before it ran off. I have used break-open single shots before and they were nowhere as fast to reload as the Enfield. With the generous amount of space in the chamber it is simple to slide in another round with speed (unlike some other rifles I have used –especially when using rimfire or smaller rounds) and have the bolt closed and the gun loaded ready to use very quickly for a follow-up shot. I imagine the rifle would be deadly fast with a clip in there.

The rifle fits me well and I prefer the reliability of it's action. The bolt operation is quiet, the only significant sound is when I pull back the cocking piece. Often I would leave the rifle cocked when I was getting close to game, or half-cocked, and then I would either fire or pull to full cock and fire or pop up the bolt quickly to release the cocking mechanism and it was simple enough to pull it back or just keep it at half-cock while hunting. In that respect it reminds me of the utility and ruggedness of the Winchester 94 30-30’s I have used before which I would keep at half-cock much of the time.

It was also a beater rifle than I could hang from a tree or put on the ground and if a little sand or dirt got in the chamber it was no big deal and didn’t affect the operation and reliability of the action.

Also the recoil of the .303 to me is mild and the only times I ever really feel it during a hunt is if I am not holding the butt properly when I am in a seated position using a rest, the recoil reminds me of 30-30 win recoil, possibly a bit more but especially when I have fired off-hand during the chase I hardly even notice it and I’m a smaller built guy than most. Another thing I noticed was that I never needed a 2nd shot when I made a hit on an animal with the .303 british. The round has more than enough power that I would feel comfortable using it on dangerous game if necessary.

I only wish I had tried out the Enfield years ago, but I’m still in my 20’s.
 
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