K98K Russian capture questions

[.455_Hunter]

I picked up a K98K RC a couple of weeks ago from the LGS for $299- Seemed like a good price.

The barrel and receiver are Mauser Oberndorf 1940 production with non-peened military markings and no "X" (that's pretty cool!). PW Arms was the importer. As expected, the bolt and later style laminate stock are forced matched with electropencil or supplemental stamping. The bore looked pretty rough in the shop (maybe why it was cheap?), but a couple hours of gun gubber, foaming penetrating oil, copper chore boys, oversize bronze bore brushes, Hoppes 9, a cordless drill, Tetra oil, and countless patches resulted in a shinny bore with just a hint of frost in the grooves. Not too bad for an Eastern Front veteran. God only knows what was in there- old cosmoline, corrosive carbon fouling, dried yak piss...

I would like to do a mild restoration of the missing parts:

Did the Russian's grind off the follower corner to remove the bolt hold open feature when empty, or was that an original German feature?

How do you determine what length cleaning rod to buy?

Are the trigger guard locking screws generally interchangeable across 98 pattern guns?

My 1940 gun predates the sight hood feature, so there are no hood retention grooves on the front base.

Thanks for your help!

General thoughts or comments on the K98K (RC or not) are welcome too.

Hunter

 

[GBExpat]

Nice find. Sounds like a good price.

My maternal grandfather started me out with a 1937 S147 K98k BringBack (mis-matched bolt, o'course ... Uncle Somebody brought it back for him from the ETO) in 1968 and I have really liked them ever since.

For the cleaning rod, google some pics of K98ks to determine how far the installed rods protruded and then use an appropriately-sized rod slid into the hole to measure a length.

In Sep'04 I saw in a SARCO ad that they had included a listing for "dark bore" Yugo re-arsed K98ks for $110. I had one remaining shiny-and-close-to-pristine-bore K98k barrel in my Barrel Barrel (yeah ... I did call it that ) so I ordered one.

When it arrived I looked in the bore and it appeared that things had taken up residence in there long ago ... but ... I spent time carefully & thoroughly cleaning it ... and it was finally clean, but fugggg-ly.

Before I started the re-barrel process I first took the rifle out back and shot it to test the accuracy of the thing. It was surprisingly accurate. Too accurate to re-barrel, I decided.

OK ... so I ordered a 2nd $110 "dark-bore" Yugo re-arse K98k and this one arrived with a tomato stake attached to the front of the receiver so I replaced it with my pristine-bore spare.

... and then I had two more K98ks.

===========

:EDIT:

OK, I went down to the basement and dug my one Russian re-arsed K98k (mfd 1944) out of the north gunsafe.

It, too, sports a force-matched laminate stock. The cleaning rod is 12½".

The bolt hold-open feature is intact.

It sports the "X".

Nice bore.

I bought it from AIM in Oct'03 when they had a small batch arrive. ($109.95)

I remember working on this one. The Russian "blued" it with what may have been a blue-tinted shellac wash (because in the presence of denatured alcohol it readily went into solution). Since I detail-stripped, cleaned & inspected it, it has been ITW (in-the-white).

 

[boom boom]

I picked up a K98K RC a couple of weeks ago from the LGS for $299- Seemed like a good price.

The barrel and receiver are Mauser Oberndorf 1940 production with non-peened military markings and no "X" (that's pretty cool!). PW Arms was the importer. As expected, the bolt and later style laminate stock are forced matched with electropencil. The bore looked pretty rough in the shop (maybe why it was cheap?), but a couple hours of gun gubber, foaming penetrating oil, copper chore boys, oversize bronze bore brushes, Hoppes 9, a cordless drill, Tetra oil, and countless patches resulted in a shinny bore with just a hint of frost in the grooves. Not too bad for an Eastern Front veteran. God only knows what was in there- old cosmoline, corrosive carbon fouling, dried yak piss...

I would like to do a mild restoration of the missing parts:

Did the Russian's grind off the follower corner to remove the bolt hold open feature when empty, or was that an original German feature?

How do you determine what length cleaning rod to buy?

Are the trigger guard locking screws generally interchangeable across 98 pattern guns?

My 1940 gun predates the sight hood feature, so there are no hood retention grooves on the front base.

Thanks for your help!

General thoughts or comments on the K98K (RC or not) are welcome too.

Hunter

Like GB ExPat, I too have a captured k98 from Oberndorf that was made prewar with the dirty birds barrel marks and mine has the appropriate barrel for the time and sights stamped for Oberndorf mfg, its markings were not peened either. I suspect that both of us have what GB ExPat has, which is a Yugo captured 98k. The Russian Captures that I saw in stores in the day and have seen on line do a pretty thorough job on peening out all of the nazi marks and are usually counterbored. The Yugo reissued 98k rifles had their receiver and most other German marks removed. So, I am wondering if these were simply rifles that the Yugos never got around to redoing which is why the markings are still around that were released after the Yugo Civil War.

I also wonder that part of these Yugo rifles were used as a source for some of the collector Mitchell's Mausers as my barrelled action was reblued. However, it did not resemble any of the RC Mausers that I have seen in bluing color. My barrelled actions was bought from the Old Western Scrounger back about when Mitchell was advertising collector grade genuine 98ks which were in fact their redone Mausers.

Mitchells bought a lot of firearms through Yugoslavia when it fell apart including the 24/47 and the m48's so it would not be a far stretch. My receiver and barrel bluing color did resemble the bluing job done on a Mitchell's Mauser that my FIL purchased and my receiver still had the remnants of bluing salts still in the crevices of the receiver. I wonder if Mitchell simply dumped those viewed as not worthy of further attention on the market to wholesalers as the OWS had several. The source could also have been SAMCO for all I know. I cannot remember off hand what importer marks are on them. My barrel was average with the usual pitting in the grooves, no counterboring though, and decent lands with original Oberndorf stamped 100 m sights and the front sight was also Oberndorf.

Now, the one odd thing that the Yugos did on some of the captured rifles was to shorten the 98k stock a bit where a bayonet will not mount. That apparently is not universal. The Germans did have both type followers on a 98k, a stay open follower until depressed and one where you could close the bolt on an empty chamber. Here is an example of the later one, http://interarmstx.com/product/german-m98-mauser-follower-milled-8mm-magazine/ and a discussion about it on gunboards, https://forums.gunboards.com/archive/index.php/t-16883.html, apparently the late ones hold the bolt open when empty while the early ones do not based on this thread and I honestly cannot remember which came first or second.

The capture screws should be universal but due to mfg. tolerance, may vary a bit. Assuming that you do not have a shortened 98k stock, then you want the German 98k issued cleaning rod or the cheaper replica which is 12.5 inches, https://www.sarcoinc.com/mauser-98k-12-1-2-cleaning-rod/ @12.95. The older GEW 98 was 15 inches If you plan to fire the rifle, get the replica. The guard lock screws in new condition, https://www.sarcoinc.com/m98-mauser-guard-lock-screw-set-military-new/, @3.95

I guess I need to get mine out and play with it a bit. I rebarrelled a mid WWI GEW 98 and then a a later mid WWII 98k Oberndorf receiver and the receivers distance from the front of the receiver ring to the locking ring for the barrel shank matched to .001 in depth. Just for fun, I switched out the other receiver parts to determine if tolerance stacking created a problem--nope. Oberndorf apparently kept their mfg. quality up even in wartime.

btw, Sarco just changed its website and wow is it different. It is a bit harder to find stuff now as they put all of the Mauser parts in one area and some different items have shown up.

 

[.455_Hunter]

My thought was Russian capture because all of the supporting parts were blued and the stock has the red lacquer coating. The serial number forced matched on the stock is also stamped in the "Russian" orientation.

 

[GBExpat]

the stock has the red lacquer coating

FYI, the Russians used shellac (at least, all of the Russian stocks [and some metal parts] that I have worked on have been shellaced) so if you need to clean-/touch-up any sloppy areas, denatured alcohol is the release agent of choice.

 

[.455_Hunter]

FYI, the Russians used shellac (at least, all of the Russian stocks [and some metal parts] that I have worked on have been shellaced) so if you need to clean-/touch-up any sloppy areas, denatured alcohol is the release agent of choice.

Sorry- Getting my coating terminology education today.

 

[BCR#1]

The cleaning rod on my 1941 BNZ RC has a cleaning rod that is 12 5/8" long. I believe the Germans used a pull through rope to clean the bore.

My follower does have the bolt hold open feature. Yours may have been switched out with another large ring Mauser follower such as a Czech VZ24. Inspect your follower for a Z in a circle for Czech made. I don't think an intermediate ring Mauser such as the Yugo follower will work in a large ring rifle.

Bill