Karh PM 9 feed ramp?

[briang2ad]

I am looking at one locally - used. It appears in good shape, but the feed ramp looks short and NOT very deep - I cannot see how it feeds anything. Almost all good feeding 9mms seem to have MUCH deeper and cupped shaped ramps.

Anyone have a PIC of a Kahr 9mm ramp on a gun that feeds well? Thanks!

 

[alpha6164]

You are right that the feed ramp looks real short and steep. Most of the FTFs are associated with this. Some people have polished the **** out of the feed ramp and have gotten improvements in feeding.

However, I will give you my 2cents. Both two of my friends and i purchased PM9s literally within a few weeks apart and all sold them in less than 6months. All of us had nothing but problems. My first warning was the "shoot 250rnds to break it in." This is not a BMW engine. I have owned Sigs, Glocks, HKs, Walthers etc and have never heard that you had to shoot x amount of rounds before it becomes reliable. All my other hand guns shot great right out of the box.

My second "uhh uhh" was when the manual says that you cant rack the slide but lock it back and release the slide to load the round. What? Never heard that in any other gun either. To make a long story short i shot over a 1000 rnds in mine and so did my friends and it never instilled a sense of confidence as a carry piece.

I could go thru 3-4mags and then suddenly i would get a failure to feed. My friends also had the same experience. You will come across people that have had these that swear by them and many like me that had problems with FTFs. Needless to say i we dont own them anymore. Also, this seems to be mostly with the polymer Kahrs. Their steel version does not suffer from the same if that means anything.

If you dont believe me just google or search here PM9 FTF and there are tons of threads ( and i am not talking about the "For Sale FTF threads lol). You wont see the same results with other subcompacts.

 

[TonyT]

I have used a kahr PM-9 which i purchased ca 18 months ago. To date it has been totally reliable and surprisingly accurate for such a short barreled pistol. It is a please to carry in a pocket holster.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I shot a CW9 yesterday belongs to a friend I think I might buy it

 

[briang2ad]

CW9 would be an option...

But MAYBE a Keltec PF9? $230 now at cdnn...

 

[Mudinyeri]

Show me a gun that's never had a failure to feed and I'll show you a gun that hasn't been shot much. Granted, some poly Kahrs seem to be more troublesome than average but, IMO, it's the age old rule where those who have a complaint voice it and those who don't remain quite.

I have a polymer Kahr (CW40) and am looking at a PM9 for a pocket gun. The short feed ramp doesn't bother me as I'm not one of those guys who believes that "it's always been done this way so we should keep doing it this way."

I polish the feed ramps (and other parts) of virtually all of my semi-auto's. Most modern guns are mass-produced items and a little TLC never hurts.

 

[RedAlert]

Ever wonder why FTF and JAM drills are part of almost any handgun training course? Well, its because they are a fact of life and most likely to occur at the worst time. Sure the objective is to reduce the failures to a minimum, but always train for the unexpected.

Another thing, carping about the break-in rounds. Every car and truck has a break-in period. You read the owners manual; didn't you? This is to allow mechanical components wear into each other. Accept it, it too is a fact of mechanical life. You can pay thousands of $$ and get one hand worked to perfection or pay less and spend some practice time wearing it in on the range.

 

[arizona98tj]

I picked up my PM9 a year ago.....and it has become my regular CCW. I run two rounds through it.....115gr FMJ for practice and 124gr HP for carry. They both work as reliably in it as they do in my regular range pistol, an XD9.....that means they work without any problems. The only way I can practice malfunction drills is by using snap caps. Waiting for one to occur naturally would leave me unpracticed.

I ignored the manual in regards to racking the slide.....pull slide back, let go, pull trigger, enjoy. Never could get it to malfunction using that method. Of course, it works fine when releasing it from slide lock too.

I frequently browse the Kahr web site and more specifically the PM9 forum. Yes, folks do have problems with their PM9. I find this to be true on the FNH forum I read, the S&W forum I read, the Benelli forum I read, and the handful of other firearms forums I browse. I also notice that folks are quite satisfied with Kahr's customer service, when the need arises. I can't say that is true for all of the other brand forums I've visited.

 

[gbran]

My PM9 came with 2 mags, a 6rnd and a 7rnd. The 7rnd mag more often than not, wouldn't feed the 1st round, but was OK on the balance. Sent back to Kahr and they returned another 7rnd mag. Same problem. Never had any problems with the same gun with 6rnd mags.

 

[Tilos]

OP

I trust the gun design engineer to create/test/confirm a design that functions, with little consideration for what it looks like to the average shooter.

That said, I've seen side by side pics of old and new feed ramp variations and suggest you confirm the ramp design of any used gun you are considering.

Why not post a pic of the feed ramp on the gun you are considering for us to compare?

 

[alpha6164]

Yes, jam drills are part of training but it doesnt make it acceptable on a daily basis. I know how to change a tire in my car but i dont want to change the tire everytime i drive the damn car. Also comparing a gun that has 10-20 moving parts to the intricate mechanics of the car is not wise. I have had a Sig 226, 239, HK P7, Glock 26, Walther PPS and M&P9 and have had 1-2 FTFs for all the guns in total in their life time and i shoot about 10,000rounds a year.


Most FTFs i see in other hand guns are associated with crappy ammo. You can call the Gun Gallery in Jax, FL and speak to the owner Neil. They have had so many complaints about Kahrs polymer frame that he tells all would be buyers up front. Show me a single manual from another top name manufacturer that says their gun wont run right for x amount of rounds? Show me a hand gun manual that says you can chamber a round by racking the slide. You wont find one.

 

[Ben86]

The first time I saw a kahr feed ramp I was like, what the hell? How is that even going to work? Well, from what I hear it does, and they designed it like that to help make the gun slimmer and smaller. I prefer the conventionally shaped feed ramps, but the kahrs are not conventional guns.

 

[Atticum]

no failures in mine.

The feed ramp is very polished though.

 

[19-3Ben]

Not a PM9, but my K40 has been flawless thus far.

 

[ultraspec]

My pm9 has been 100% out of the box for 300 rounds now and is insanely accurate.

Trust me when I saw most everyone i know who has one says the same thing.

 

[briang2ad]

I put the gun on layaway.

It has serial number IA96XX, so I suppose it was made AFTER May 09. I think that is a good thing, but we'll likely find out next week, when I pick it up and start shooting it. Yes, it is high risk in a sense, but I figure that the newer ones have more of the bugs worked out. There are plenty of PM 9s out there which people really like. There are some which had issues - particularly back in 06-07.

I just thought that:

- It carries SO well
- The trigger felt better than the PF9
- I'd get more pride of ownership, and it would likley be a tad more comfortable shooting withour adding ugly hogue wraparound grips, etc.
- It just looks well made.

We'll see. The shop said they'd send it back to Kahr on their dime if it is messed up. (for 30 days or so).

I think single stack feeding is HARDER, espeially for short guns. Look at all the issues with SHORT 45s over the years. Also look at what happens when 8 round 45 mags actually get 8 rounds in them! The feed angle lowers considerably.

 

[Tilos]

briang2ad, Good Call

You won't be disappointed.

I used 3 types of cheap 115gr ammo for function testing, with wallyworld federal FMJ being the longest overall length at 1.165".
If it is going to jam I'm thinking that longest ammo would be the most problematic...it did not jam(fail to feed).

I did swap out the 6rd mag metal floor plate for a CW9 poly mag floor plate.
This fills the gap between the mag base and floor plate that pinches your pinkie.
Also, the poly base plate can be reshaped with a file.

Now stretch a piece of bicycle tube over the grip and you are good to go.

My biggest problem with the gun is finding a place for all my fingers when shooting 2 handed

Enjoy

 

[Ben86]

I did swap out the 6rd mag metal floor plate for a CW9 poly mag floor plate.
This fills the gap between the mag base and floor plate that pinches your pinkie.
Also, the poly base plate can be reshaped with a file.

That is an excellent idea, I've never liked how the magazine stuck out like that.

 

[Tilos]

Ben86:

Thanks, and if you are handy with tools you can cut down that silly mag floor plate/grip thing that comes on the 7rd mag shipped with the PM9.

And the cost for doing it this way?....nothing

Note: You can buy any mag bases, seperately, at the Kahr website.

Here's a pic:

 

[Atticum]

I put the gun on layaway.

It has serial number IA96XX, so I suppose it was made AFTER May 09. I think that is a good thing, but we'll likely find out next week, when I pick it up and start shooting it. Yes, it is high risk in a sense, but I figure that the newer ones have more of the bugs worked out. There are plenty of PM 9s out there which people really like. There are some which had issues - particularly back in 06-07.

I just thought that:

- It carries SO well
- The trigger felt better than the PF9
- I'd get more pride of ownership, and it would likley be a tad more comfortable shooting withour adding ugly hogue wraparound grips, etc.
- It just looks well made.

We'll see. The shop said they'd send it back to Kahr on their dime if it is messed up. (for 30 days or so).

I think single stack feeding is HARDER, espeially for short guns. Look at all the issues with SHORT 45s over the years. Also look at what happens when 8 round 45 mags actually get 8 rounds in them! The feed angle lowers considerably.

I have an IA96XX pm9. It's been flawless. My feed ramp is mirror polished.

 

[Ben86]

Nice job Tilos, that looks great.

 

[Doug S]

I haven't bought a Kahr due to the very many negative reviews about reliability I've read over the years. Reading this thread, maybe things are looking up for Kahr. Still, I can't help but wonder what advantage a 6 round Kahr with a high potential for reliability issues has over a 5 round J-frame with a strong record of being reliable?? Rhetorical question.

 

[briang2ad]

Atticum:

I have an IA96XX pm9. It's been flawless. My feed ramp is mirror polished.

Thanks - did you do it? I MIGHT use a felt tip and dremel to do mine before I shoot. Also, I might just rack the slide a few hundred times to ensure "breakin" - they are tight.

Also - I hear about the revolver. They would be the most reliable. However, flat is good - for me its best. (Although LCR looks good). Also, I just viewed a video, where a guy HAD a J-Frame which he carried in his pocket broken for months before he found out. I also watched a buddy tie up an L-frame with factory ammo (primer backup) so bad that a gunsmith was needed. So.. they can mess up also.

Further: Is there a good Kahr site? I'm trying on GlockTalk and Kahrtalk - not much help there.

 

[Tilos]

Doug S

Been there, done that.

I'll try to be brief as I believe your subject should be a seperate thread.

I went to buy a PM9 for a cross-country trip, could not find one, and bought a SW scandium 5shot revolver instead.
It cost MORE than a PM9 and I am a revolver guy.
The stock boot grip was brutal, changed grip, now gun is bigger, stoked it with 38s and made the trip.
Go shooting, load it up with 5 .357s, shoot 2 rounds, remove remaining 3.
Trade revolver (and more $$) for PM9.
My take on the revolver is the grip is too far below barrel resulting in brutal recoil.

 

[briang2ad]

I guess that is why the LCR has a big ol' rubber grip defeating the size/ purpose...

Also, I see SO many people putting handalls on the PF9 for comfort. I don't see as many folks doing that on the PM9 - another reason for this gun...

There - I 'violated' my own thread...