Keep the once fired brass or buy new?

Is it worth buying new brass or keeping Hornady's 6.5CM Match if you're loading for target? I've heard that Hornady's brass fatigues quickly and doesn't last long? If you were to buy brass for the 6.5CM, who's brass would you buy? And does all virgin brass have the same length? I find different answers on SR -vs- LR primer holes. If SR is the answer, why wouldn't Hornady use these?

If you don't think Hornady brass is worth your trouble you can send it to me. LOL
I have only bought about 5 boxes of ammo for my 6.5 CM, all the other brass I have reloaded is scavenged from my local ranges. I have about 2K rounds loaded for my 6.5 CM guns & are saving my brass in 1st, 2nd, 3rd batches but haven't found maybe two or three cracked brass.
Some guys at the ranges I go to know I pick up brass & are starting to leave the unwanted brass in a pile or in the boxes on the shooting table.
 
6.5 Creedmoor-

I started with 3 boxes of Hornady loaded ammo. 2 different types. Loading with fl bushing die, it should produce many loadings, it didn't.Poor annealing, my guess.
Neck wall thickness uneven. Headstamp strange. Sorted by weight & neck turned, made no difference or different bullets.

Bought Starline as back up. Accuracy same between brands. Axis barrel not up to great accuracy. 1 1/4" average @ 100 yds. ,5 shot groups.

More testing needed, come spring. Youtube videos interesting on primer size. I would stay with LARGE.
The coated bushing could not size the lubed necks correctly. No fixing bad brass.View attachment 1128470 View attachment 1128471 View attachment 1128472
View attachment 1128475

Posted before- https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/hornady-factory-ammo-brass-defect-4th-loading.909184/ Another reloaded had same bad Hornady headstamps.
Very nice. Well said. Informative. Thx.
 
I buy Hornady brass for my 6 Creeds for PRS competition, so my answer is inherently yes, keep the Hornady brass to reuse for reloading.



I currently have around 2500pc of Hornady 6 creed brass, 500 of which are on their 15th firing. For the money, I have no complaints with this firing count, and every firing I get from here on is just gravy.



If I were to buy something over Hornady, it would be Lapua or Alpha.



No.



SAAMI standard specs for the Creedmoor cases are LRP, that’s why Hornady uses them. SRP brass, in theory, should last longer, but as I implied above, if I’m getting 15-20 firings, I don’t complain.
As always, sage advice. Thx.
 
This is kinda talking out of both sides of the mouth - “brass doesn’t really matter, but don’t neglect how much brass matters.”

Case capacity and neck tension (uniform thickness and ductility) are critical to ammo performance. Case head malleability is critical to brass life. Some manufacturers do these things better than others - or rather, some manufacturers work slower and harder to achieve higher levels of performance, which in turn is reflected in the price of the end product.

If a reloader puts zero-value on their time, and fails also to consider opportunity costs of time and investments squandered by waste from capacity sorting (waste AND wasted time for weight sorting), equipment for pocket and flash hole uniforming, flash hole deburring, neck turning, etc, then the books are cooked and the comparison of quality brass to big-brand brass becomes inappropriately clouded.

It is true to say most reloaders are not chasing the level of precision required to notice these differences, and true to say small groups can be fired from any brand of brass - but it is also true to say the overwhelming majority of reloaders who spend time and money to weight sort, capacity sort, neck turn or ream, etc really are NOT getting good value, compared to simply buying better brass, or simply realizing they aren’t shooting small enough for any of what they are doing to matter. Same dudes out there doing load development based on 100 yard 3-5 shot group size… just wasting time, money, and energy.

Exactly! Not sure but when you say, "Put your money where your mouth is." I kinda fee like putting up a target next to your response might have a better impact?
 
I selectively quoted because this first part - “unless you’re blowing it out at F1” is largely meaningless, and certainly has no sensible connection to reality.

The common reloader can shoot the difference between high and low quality brass. Not just the elite competitors - and frankly, in most instances, the common Joe behind the press will likely notice MORE performance improvement by using quality brass than will the elite competitor, because the competitor IS spending more time doing things to create uniformity in their brass which will happen inherently, and inadvertently, for the common shooter just by improving the quality of brass they purchase. Consistent neck tension especially promote forgiveness in load development and ammo performance, as does consistent internal capacity - and buying better brass DOES buy that performance. Competition shooters typically buy it, or the time spent to MAKE it is worthwhile compared to the opportunity cost of dropping points or flying shots at matches. But if the common plinker wants smaller groups with less investment, buying better brass is one of the shortest roads to get there.
Yurp. I "feel" this is a very responsible post. It all matters. I don't see an end to the rabbit hole when chasing the top of the podium.
 
I'd like to try Lapua's SRP brass. Just can't find it. Ideas? And for what it's worth, I don't doubt that everyone of you could out shoot me on your worst day. Thanks guys.
 
I'd like to try Lapua's SRP brass. Just can't find it. Ideas? And for what it's worth, I don't doubt that everyone of you could out shoot me on your worst day. Thanks guys.

Eyes open, it’s tough. Lapua is relatively lower production, and those of us shooting it buy a bunch of it.

That challenged availability of Lapua brass is part of the reason Alpha has been able to grow their market share so quickly - they were available, so guys could try it, and guys tried it, it delivered. I’m a Lapua loyalist, so it may just by my own bias to say Alpha crosses the line with their bumper even with Lapua’s door, but the rest of the field is car lengths behind them (I need more time with Peterson brass, but maybe they’re bump drafting Lapua across the line too).
 
You have to know when to stop to keep from wasting components and burning out barrels for no appreciable gain.

^^^ This bears repeating.

And also to add to it - you have to know how to actually recognize when “appreciable gain,” is actually gain. Differentiated from “one duck weighs more than the other because it weighs more than the other,” and avoiding the trap of “that one group was smaller so it must have been a better load.”
 
I only buy lupula small primer.
Small primer brass should last longer as the case web is supposed to be stronger.
Small primer is not ideal for ballpowder unless you are doing nearly compressed loads.
I get hang fires with with small primer brass and ballpowder if the powder fills the case less than 80%. I loaded up a few shots with a start load of 748 to do a comparison between fire formed brass and new brass loaded with full power n555 loads and all those 34gr 748 shots hung.
I say anneal them and keep running them.

Going for maximum accuracy with Hornady brass is like trying to make a Honda civic fast. I found Hornady brass to be all over the place as far as weight and neck thickness.
Weights for Hornady brass varied by 2.5 grams just in one box of fired ammo.
The neck thickness was really bad I think it was 2.5 and 2.5, where the worst cases were 2.5 thousands difference from one case to the next for min/max and the neck thickness varied by up to 2.5 thousands on a few of them and that was out of one box of 20.
You can waste time buying Hornady brass, sorting by weights and there will be a lot of different weight piles and messing with neck turning or buy lupula brass and a decent annealing setup, sell your neck turner and be done with it.
With lupula brass the necks were super consistent case to case less than a thousandth difference, neck thickness was like half a thousandth on the worst ones and there weren't that may, a few out of a hundred. Weights were about 1 gram for for several hundred case. All most all the brass was 9.6 grams to 9.9 grams. I eliminated the lightest and heaviest 5% and use those for testing, check the wind call and fouling shots. The heaviest ones were 10.5gm and the lightest were 9.5gm I think. No comparison between Hornady and lupula.
In this case you get what you pay for.
I have tested neck turning and it appear to be a waste of time unless you have to use shtty brass for some reason. Say you are shooting some oddball round with one bad or no premium sources of brass or you are forming your cases from straight wall or some something else and now the old cases shoulder is part of your finished cases neck. Then definitely turn them.
 
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If you don't think Hornady brass is worth your trouble you can send it to me. LOL
I have only bought about 5 boxes of ammo for my 6.5 CM, all the other brass I have reloaded is scavenged from my local ranges. I have about 2K rounds loaded for my 6.5 CM guns & are saving my brass in 1st, 2nd, 3rd batches but haven't found maybe two or three cracked brass.
Some guys at the ranges I go to know I pick up brass & are starting to leave the unwanted brass in a pile or in the boxes on the shooting table.
I don’t use range brass for accuracy loads, variation in case capacity can drive a guy to the curb. If you must use them try keeping them separated and run them past a chronograph sorting out the closest fps and set the outliers aside.
 
Yeah range brass is a good way to describe it. Absolutely fine if you are shooting like 100 yards. Even my Hornady cased loads are absolutely deadly to coyotes at 250yards no problem. But I'm probably shooting about 5 inch groups at that distance with Hornady brass.
 
So because none of these posts set a benchmark or an objective limit, I hang it out there and Don my flame suit. If your needs are 1 moa or less buy good brass. If your just playing at the range and don't run premium bullets don't waste your time or money.
 
According to Hornady, their loads are tested to maintain pressures to make reach 10 firings. IF primer pockets are loosening, you are loading too hot. IF brass is failing, you are too hot or have chamber issues.

Over size, loose, bad cut chamber will show up in all brass, not just a particular make.
 
^^^ This bears repeating.

And also to add to it - you have to know how to actually recognize when “appreciable gain,” is actually gain. Differentiated from “one duck weighs more than the other because it weighs more than the other,” and avoiding the trap of “that one group was smaller so it must have been a better load.”
This is my learning experience with my new 6.5 Grendel. I learned there is a time to stop wasting time and valuable components when a load doesn't work out.
The Grendel is a lot of fun to shoot and next fall, hopefully I'll kill a deer with it. The load I have with either the Nolser 120 BT or the Hornady 123 SST will do the job no problem, if I don't get buck fever!
My problem is what is mentioned above, I keep wanting to chase smaller groups by trying new loads, when most likely the biggest problem is my shooting skills, or lack thereof. :)
 
So because none of these posts set a benchmark or an objective limit, I hang it out there and Don my flame suit. If your needs are 1 moa or less buy good brass. If your just playing at the range and don't run premium bullets don't waste your time or money.
I would agree with you, defining the mission is job one then choose the tools to accomplish the task.
 
Exactly! Not sure but when you say, "Put your money where your mouth is." I kinda fee like putting up a target next to your response might have a better impact?

6 Creed Hornady brass, paper targets reflect node and zero confirmations at 100yrds and the target arrays include charge weight ladders, meaning they include the best charge weight and the worst charge weights, and everything in between, all represented there, and all hanging around .2-.5moa. Wanna say those May dated targets would have been around the 5-6th firing on that lot of brass, with the other targets spanning back to the first few firings, but on a different barrel.

71AE1647-67CA-4845-A059-33BA1E0E7A15.jpeg

The steel target was a waterline truing test - 3 shots at 875yrds, then I added 0.2mils and fired the 15rnd group. The target there is 12” wide, still hanging onto sub-MOA.

421B3818-B2B2-4368-BF0B-FC1AA0C25A8C.jpeg
 
As Walkalong said, keep and use your Hornady brass to learn on and practice.

The quality of brass you will need depends upon if you are just target shooting for yourself or competition and how high a level of competition you are competing in.

If just for you or local matches I see no reason not to buy Starline brass after your Hornday brass gives up the ghost.

If you intend on shooting high level competition my opinion there is almost nothing better than Lapua brass.

Good luck, be safe and have fun...
 
If I shoot factory ammo in my rifles I keep it for that rifle and mark it as such since it's already fire formed. I only neck size after that. When I buy brass it's Starline and I get more than enough reloads out of it and no issues. In my .308s I use a lot of the Fed/LC brass I acquired by shooting the xm80 stuff in my M14s.
 
When I got my lapua brass it was about $1 per case. At the same time the "cheap brass" was 70 to 80 cents if you could find it.
I just checked the prices and it looks like that was a great buy.
Yes it is these days, I should have bought more.
 
Can you provide reference for this? I’ve never had the fortune of a brass manufacturing making such commitments.

It is not in writing, that I have seen. It came from a conversation with a ballistician at the Shot Show, several years back. I had asked him about them not listing pressures in the reloading manuals.
 
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