Kahr PM9 vs. Kel-Tec P-11?

[Maximum1]

I'm considering getting a second light weight 9mm and was thinking about a Kahr PM9 although when I look at the price compared to my Kel-Tec P-11 I'm trying to figure out why is the Kahr TWICE the price of a Kel-Tec P-11?

They is nothing wrong with my P-11 in fact I love it... It's with me all the time I just want a second compact 9mm.

feedback welcome

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

I had a KT P-11, but traded it in on a PM9. My opinion on the the P-11 was ok for the money, but not great. The trigger kind of stinks, it's too narrow and has very bad over-travel. Additionally, the rear of the grip rubbed a bad blister on my thumb if I shot it much. The finish on the slide wasn't great, and it tended to surface rust quickly. The gun had an overall "springy" feel.

The PM9 is very well made, has a SS slide, a nice smooth double-action trigger, and better sights. It's about the same weight of the P-11, but only has a single stack magazine, so you're limited to 6+1 or 7+1 with the extended mag. It's also considerably thinner than the P-11. The PM9 is much more accurate and IMHO more pleasant to shoot. It feels solid, not "springy" like the P-11. However, the PM9 costs ~$250 more (about $500 in my neck of the woods).

As far as reliability, I have had occasional FTF's with both guns, probably due to occasionally limp-wristing as any of these small autos are very susceptible to this.

I don't regret letting the P-11 go in favor of the PM9.

 

[jlh26oo]

I have a pm9. I personally can't recommend it*. But plenty of people love theirs around here, so you might end up being one of those.

Can't speak to the p-11, never had one. But if you do a search- you'll find that just as many speak highly of their kel-tecs as kahrs!





*http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=234419

 

[Coyote3855]

I have, or rather my wife and son, two KelTec P11's. We also have in the family two P32s, a 3AT and P40 (no longer made by KelTec). Primary carry guns for my wife and I are Kahr P9's. After my wife appropriated my first P9, I bought a PM40. It was no easier to carry or conceal than the P9, and even with the extended magazine base pad, did not fit my hand like the P9. And this is just a matter of taste, but I though the PM40 was stumpy and ugly. So I sold it and bought the second P9.

I think the KelTec's are excellent guns for the money. I carry the 3AT as a backup to Kahr, and my wife does the same with one of the P32's.

My thought, for what it's worth, if you can swing the Kahr, do it. Fit, finish, trigger pull, etc. are much better. If not, the KelTec is a good gun for the money.

 

[Striker]

My initial experience with Kel-Tecs, a P40, was underwhelming to say the least.

However, I picked up a used P-11 a few weeks ago, and like it a lot. The trigger is all that has been discussed here, but after 250 rds of transition, managable for me. It has been totally reliable so far with everything I put thru it (150 rds ball and 100 rds of various JHP's all in the 115-124 weights).

I like it and recommend it.....so far.

 

[romma]

I have a P-32... I also have a PM9, the new Ketec PF-9 should be more and more available in the coming months as an alternative to either. Oh, I do like the reliability of the Kahr but usually carry the Keltec.

 

[Maximum1]

My thanks to all for the great input!

I sincerely appreciate all the great input from both the Kahr and Kel-tec owners. Looks like I need to see if my local training center has a Kahr sounds like I need to shoot it before buying

Again, thanks all.

 

[redneckrepairs]

I have a pm9 that has been flawless after the break inn rounds and i love it . That being said , kel techs are good for a fraction of the price and the pf9 was not even on the drawing board when i got my pm9 . I will reccomend kahrs , but suggest you take the time to find and look at the pf9 too , supposedly ( i have not " coon fingered " one yet ) it is only marginaly bigger , so i really dont know if it would fit your needs , or if the Kahr is worth the $$ because its cheaper than the other alternitave ( the roraghbagh or howeaver you spell it lol )

 

[copper4262]

I carry my kel-tec 9mm with me often - i have found it to be very reliable and easy to conceal. I had a chance to buy a Kahr at a good price but passed it up - my Kel does the job and I really dont see any reason to change - besides - Im not too sure what to think of the stories I had heard about the Kahr's owners cult or whatever it is. Anyone else heard about this?? is it true or just a rumor?

 

[redneckrepairs]

Kahr is owned by the the reverand sung young moon's son , ( yea them moonies lol ) but has no connection to the church whatsoeaver . I belive i read somewhere that the boy isnt even a practicing member of the church . I for one wont hold his family against the guns he builds .

 

[bb21]

CW9

Just a suggestion but why not compare the P11 with the Kahr CW9, closer in price rage and still a Kahr, I don't have experience with either but price wise they are better comparisons. The Kahr will still be almost twice as much, but I think you can find them for around $400 new, $389 at impactguns.com. I looked at the P11 but went with a Mil Pro instead, the P11 is completely practical no bells or whistles so to speak. Kahr tried to enter a new niche by making the most basic model they could no machined inscriptions on the slide, they’re stamped and I believe they use less machined internals. I hope this helps. Good Luck and Be Safe!

 

[Maximum1]

RE: Cw9

bb21 wrote: “Just a suggestion but why not compare the P11 with the Kahr CW9, closer in price rage and still a Kahr”


Great point bb21! Here's a recent review of the KAHR ARMS
CW9 9mm… http://www.kahr.com/review_ch0905.html

To answer you question: The reason I’m comparing the P-11 to the PM9 is I already have a “value” gun and if I upgrade I want gun that isn’t down-rated by using cheaper materials….Just look at the differences in barrels used in the CW9 various the one used in the PM9..The difference is night and day. There are also other notable difference in materials one example is: The PM9094A's slide is coated with Tungsten DLC (formerly known as Black Diamond), an extremely thin and super-hard treatment by Bodycote…the CW9 is not treated.

But the real point of comparing the P-11 to the PM9 is they are comparable in size and weight in fact they are almost an exact match (except the P-11 is a double stack and Kahrs are single stack) even the barrel lengths are the same. The CW9 is larger, slightly heavy and in fact is a totally different gun then either the P-11 or PM9.

 

[SSN Vet]

the magic number......

is the thickness dimension.....

Nobody is as thin as the Kahr @ 0.9" and go and measure one...that's the max. thickness you'll find.

I opted for a PT-111 and though I like it very much, it's thicker....the published spec. is 1-1/8".....but it measures slightly wider at points on the poly receiver.

the P-11 published spec. is 1.0".....take a caliper and measure yours and see if that holds true.

That 1/10th of an inch makes quite a difference IMHO.

Karh's patented offset feed ramp lowers the bore axis as well. And that gives more room on the grip for the same overall height dim. On the P9, I can get a full purchase with my pinky (I've got fat knuckles) and the over all height is 4.5".

On my PT-111, I can only get a half finger purchase with my pinky, and the overall height is 5-1/8". More gun to carry and conceal and less room on the grip.

I got the PT-111 because I was severely funds limited, and yet I wasn't willing to skimp on quality....and this is a quality pistol.

Never shot a Keltech.....held one and wasn't impressed, though theres a lot of people singing their praises. Overall I think the reveiws seem mixed though.

Hope to get a Karh some day......but now that I have a PT-111 shaped indentation in my a$$, I'll stick with it for the foreseeable future.

Summary....I think in the world of concealed carry....thickness and weight are the crucial numbers and once you get down to a certain "smallness", the price to get just a little smaller yet goes up significantly. Kahr gives the thinnest package, is very light and goes on the record to say they can handle +P.....while most others play the CYA game and say "not recommended"

Others know much more than I....but I'm bored and rambling.

 

[ugaarguy]

The Kahr's slide width is .90" per their website, and the slide release is visibly wider http://www.kahr.com/new_pm9093.html.

Kel-Tec, per their website, lists the new PF-9 at .88" width, but does not specify if that's slide or widest point width.

For a neutral source, see "Bobo's Pocket Auto Comparison Chart" thread stickied at the top of the Autoloaders sub-forum. Using his widest point measurement he lists the Kahr at 1.10", The KT PF-9 at .98", and the P-11 at 1.30"

Comparing the width of the Kahr PM-9, a 6+1 single stack, to the KT P-11, a 12+1 (yes, there are after ban 12 round flush fit mags available) isn't a fair comparison. The new PF-9 from Kel-Tec is a single stack 7+1 round pistol. The PF-9 also inherited the P3AT's improved DA trigger. In fairness to Kahr, as others have already said, their CW-9 is a fairer comparison to either Kel-Tec in terms of price.

The length, both bbl length and grip height, is pretty much secondary when looking at pistols this small. As SSN Vet said, you've got to take a hard look at width in a deep concealment pistol. I hope this all helps in the comparison.

 

[Hawaiian]

I can't comment on the Kel-Tech as I don't own one. But I will say that I am very happy with my Kahr PM9. I often pocket carry and in the FIST Kydex holster is works very well for me. I added Pearce extension grips because I like to have my pinky on the grip. Also added Agrip which made a substantial improvement. I am very pleased with the Kahr.

 

[orionengnr]

Another Kahr convert.
Former S&W J-frame guy; my PM9 is my always gun.
BTW, also own a Kahr P45 which is my "winter...such-as-it-is, 2-3 months at best" gun.

 

[10-Ring]

No brainer - Kahr

 

[Maximum1]

One other point to consider when selecting personal protection firearms: Mag Capacity

One other point to consider when selecting a personal protection firearms: Mag Capacity!

I just finished reading an article in Conceal Carry Magazine (July, 2006) the staff pulled together shooting statistics which clearly point to mag capacity over bore size…PERIOD. The article goes on to say (with data backing it up) that given a choice between 7 round capacity vs. 10 always goes with the 10…

Excerpts from the article. “Pistol bullets, regardless of caliber, are all what one colleague calls “iffy.” None can be guaranteed to drop an adversary in his tracks reliably. The notion of a one shot stop is an urban myth.” If we look at the three most prevalent calibers, we see that there is very little difference between them. A 9mm (also .38/.357) is only one little millimeter smaller than the 10mm (aka .40 S&W) and that is only one little millimeter less than the vaunted 11mm (aka .45 ACP). And before we get into the high speed, light bullet versus the heavy, slow bullet argument, let’s remember that you can only drive a pistol bullet so fast without drastically affecting its integrity. Moreover, since penetration is affected by weight, sacrificing weight for speed will not yield good results. Finally, you can only make a bullet so light or so heavy. There are limits to what you can shoot out of a pistol.”

“The point to remember is that in a fight that the private citizen is likely to be in, one can easily develop “Bullet Deficit Disorder,” which can have deleterious effects on the outcome of that fight. The idea that a pair or trio of quality rounds carefully delivered onto a high scoring target zone will stop the action and fail both the terminal ballistics test and the applications test. A truth of gunfighting: Having more ammo immediately on board lessens the likelihood of ever needing to reload. Not needing to reload translates into more time delivering lead and less time manipulating the weapon. More trigger time increases the likelihood of hitting, which increases survivability.”

“So the question is this: Given that there is a limit to the size of the pistol that one can carry, do I want that pistol to hold more rounds? My answer is a strong YES!
Consider the similarly sized Glock 36 in .45 ACP, and the Glock 23 in .40 S&W. The latter holds nearly twice the ammo of the former in an almost identical package. The Glock 19 is an even more drastic comparison, with 15 shots available. Of course, there are also high capacity .45 pistols for those so inclined and for those who can wield them. I would argue that if your choice is a .45, a gun holding 13 would be better than a gun holding 6. And if your hand is too small for the 13 shooter, rather than decrease capacity, I’d decrease the caliber.”

Strong points for staying with a high capacity firearm so maybe I need to keep my Kel-tec P-11.

 

[MCgunner]

No brainer, Kel Tec...

Kahr is owned by the the reverand sung young moon's son

Now THERE'S an odd bit of trivia I didn't know. Strange. Wonder how the guy got into guns or did he just get into engineering or something? Hmm, weird. Or, maybe the moonies are closet survivalists like the Branch Dividians or something?

 

[SSN Vet]

interesting article about Justin Moon

interview by Massad Ayoob..

it's dated but still interesting.