Kel tec P11 Vs Kel tec PF9

[EHL]

Hey guys,
I've recently been contemplating getting a "pocket 9" for carry. I already have .380 that serves that purpose, but I do have lots of 9mm ammo and it is soooo cheap in comparison to .380 that I have been contemplating getting a comparibly small carry gun chambered in 9mm. I have a P3AT and I love how concealable she is. I wish she were more fun to shoot. I use shooting gloves and that takes alot of the bite out of shooting this little beast. But that being said, I want to know who here owns either of these guns and how they fair against each other as far as: concealability, ease of shooting, percieved recoil, accuracy, etc....

A word on the recoil, is it as bad as the P3AT???

Also, I invite any to make their comments, but if all you are gonna do is bash Kel tec and talk about getting a Kahr PM9 or a Springfield EMP, please save it for another thread. I HATE the kahr PM9, I think it's overpriced and not at all a gun I would want to shoot regularly with. I think the Springfield EMP is a great gun too, but with the lack of holsters, laser sights, parts, etc..... it seems too impractical to pay such a hefty price tag to have a gun that occupys such a small niche. (micro 1911)

 

[Chuckulator]

I have both of those guns. The PF-9 was an early version (first 1000) and jammed until I got the new barrel. It has worked well since then. The P-11 has always worked great.

Both of them have Hogue Hand All Jr. grips on them. This makes the P11 a little wide, but feels pretty darn good on the PF-9. I would recommend it.

The PF-9 is not easy to shoot well. I think my mistake has been to use ammo that is too hot. A gun this light probably does better with just regular ammo i.e. no +p. I really haven't noticed a big difference in the triggers.

For both, I use an Uncle Mikes inside the waistband holster #15.

I would give a slight reliability edge to the P-11. It also holds 11 or even 13 rounds with newer magazines. The PF-9 is a little "sexier."

The PF-9 is too big to pocket carry for me.

 

[dontshakepandas]

There are a lot of people that would say that the PF-9 is a bad gun, I don't think it is. Many of them are pretty reliable, and the ones that aren't, can be made so by a "fluff and buff." They are cheap, and have a good warranty too.

That being said, I don't have one. I was VERY close to purchasing one not too long ago, but decided to go with something else. The two main reasons for this are that its just not fun to shoot and the manufacturer says its only built to last for about 6000 rounds (they will replace it under warranty though.)

I also don't like the Kahr pistols. I'm not sure why, I just don't.

I ended up with a Walther PPS. Its almost exactly the same size as the PF-9 and its REALLY fun to shoot. I can pocket carry it in cargo pants (either in the front pocket or the actual cargo pocket) but its a bit too big for jean pockets. It has been 100% reliable out of the box with FMJ and JHP. I was actually really surprised at how accurate the thing is for having such a short barrel.

Here is a picture comparing the two, the PPS has the extended magazine in place in the picture, it comes with a flat mag as well.


It was about twice as expensive as the PF-9. Does that mean that its twice as good as the PF-9, no. The PF-9 is a great value, I just wanted something that was a little more fun to shoot.

 

[CJ]

I have a P11, and found it just too big for pocket carry, so I also picked up a PF9. The little differences between the P11 and PF9 end up being huge in terms of comfortable carry. It amazes me how just the little difference in the measurements translates into comfort for carry.

Now it's possible to carry the PF9 in a large pocket (although I typically don't opt for this, it IS possible).

Regarding handling...the PF9 trigger is definitely better in my opinion. I added (i.e. glued on) a trigger shoe to the P11 to make it more pleasant to pull. The PF9 trigger is light enough that I don't feel the need for it (although if someone came out with a solid wide trigger for it, I'd consider it).

Recoil wise, I only have a Ruger LCP to compare it to. Switching from the PF9 to the LCP made the LCP seem like a dream to shoot: I experience much less recoil and discomfort from the LCP. That being said, I don't consider myself particularly recoil tolerant and I manage a few magazines through the PF9 without problem, and without gloves or an overgrip.

Overall, if you're wanting a 9mm with pocket carry potential, I'd pick the PF9 over the P11. If you'd prefer the comfort of having 13 rounds in a slightly wider body and are willing to use a small IWB holster or SmartCarry style, try out a P11 (and give the trigger some time to break it...it DOES smooth out and lighten up over time).

 

[EHL]

Thanks for all the info guys. I especially appreciate all the feedback on the various small 9mms you all have purchased.

I like the Walther too Dontshakepandas. I read reviews about how great a shooter she is. The ONLY thing I really have against that gun is the mag release. You use the trigger gaurd as the mag release???? Too wierd. I'd have to try it and be convinced I wouldn't be able to screw it up if I was in an encounter and needed to reload.

CJ I appreciate your observations on the two Kel tecs as well. So I gather that the PF9 is the more suitable for pocket carry?? I'm not very interested in IWB carry because I already have a 1911 that I do that with. I don't think it's very comfortable to carry it all the time though. I like the ability to just grab a gun and stuff her in my pocket for: walking the dog, running to gas station, taking a stroll, running to the supermarket across the street. When I actually am planning to go out for an extended amount of time, I will dress around my 1911 and wear clothing suitable for covering it and loose enough to fit snug but allow me to breathe. If I go down in caliber, I expect two things, a weapon that weighs less and is physically smaller too. If I don't get these two advantages then I'd just as soon not move down in caliber for carry. Thanks again guys.

 

[presspuller]

I have the P-11 and like it. As has been said it just about too big for pocket carry unless you are wearing cargo type pants with large pockets. I do not own the PF9 but I am thinking the only difference in size is the p-11 is about .100 wider. If you are carrying in a pocket that may be enough different to tell, I don't know.

 

[Rex B]

I have a P11, my 3rd so far. While it's too hefty for a pocket pistol, it's the smallest 9mm that will take a 12-rnd mag, plus it will accept 15-rnd S&W 59XX mags. So mine resides in a trunk safe, 28 rounds ready to go. Since there's no room for a rifle in my sports car trunk, it's my go-to when the .380 needs some help.
I've looked at the PF9, but so far I haven't warmed up to it. I'll take a look at the PPS at the gun show tomorrow.

 

[ROVERMAN]

Can' comment on the P11 as I have never had the opportunity to fire one, but my PF9 serves my needs just fine. I did consider the P11 but with the size and weight of the PF9 it can be concealed just about anywhere you want to hide it and with the belt clip option that makes it easier. As far as reliabilty goes everyone take into consideration these small guns are not made to run large numbers of rounds through on a regular basis. They are designed for close quarters personal protection i.e. "get off me gun". I have personally run 500 rounds through mine without a single malfunction. That is good enough for a "mouse gun" that I can drop in the front pocket of my pants an no one is the wiser. Hope this helps a little.

 

[kitsapcharly]

I have a P-11 and a couple of P-3ATs. The little 380s can fit in a watch pocket in some jeans...like a built-in holster. DeSantis makes a pocket holster that works fine in any other pants I've tried. The P-11 is too big for pocket carry in the same type of holster in any pants otherwise. It's a slinky design for other ways to carry and probably good for IWB holsters, etc..
That being said my SmartCarry will let me carry an XD-45c. A real caliber in a terrific gun with both 10-shot and 13-shot mags. The 380 is always there and can hide in shorts without even a t-shirt.
Many Kel-Tec fans agitated for the P-9 because the P-11 was thought too thick but most seem to realize that the P-9 still doesn't pocket well.

 

[dontshakepandas]

Just wanted to address your comment about the Walther's mag release.

At first, it was really weird for me too. However, after a little practice, it feels really natural. You probably won't be able to reach it with your thumb, but it works great if you use your firing finger, or middle finger. I also think it has an advantage in a carry gun because you don't have to worry about somehow accidentally dropping the mag.

I think that after you use it a little, you will get used to it. However, there are some people that just can't seem to get used to it.