Kel-Tec PF-9 vs. Kahr PM9
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redneckrepairs
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< flame suit on > Yea they do , but then i think a yugo and a porche are similar cars with a big price differance too . Not knocking kel-tech i own a p3at but kel-tech and kahr really are not comperable pistols .
KONY
Member
Was a thread on this comparison on KTOG.org ...
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display;num=1146804759
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display;num=1146804759
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joesolo
Member
Kahr all the way. Mine's flawless.
I have a Kahr K9 and a KelTec PF-9.
I like both pistols, but the Kahr and the KelTec are in a different class.
You pay more for a Kahr and you get a better trigger, quality, accuracy and longevity.
Get what you can afford, or like me, get both.
I like both pistols, but the Kahr and the KelTec are in a different class.
You pay more for a Kahr and you get a better trigger, quality, accuracy and longevity.
Get what you can afford, or like me, get both.
MCgunner
Member
Rather own the Civic, will last a lot longer, don't cost near as much to maintain, much better gas mileage, affordable, gets the job done. The Ferrari is ostentatious useless in a 70 mph world, unless you plan to use it to pick up chicks. But, if you have that kind of money, why do you need a Ferrari to find a date? Just open you checkbook and show 'em your balance.
Similarly, I don't see how the Kahr could be twice as much gun (twice the price). The Kel Tec gets the job done just fine, accurate, 100 percent reliable. I don't consider resale value here as I don't intend to sell it. It's been perkin' along for 10 years now, never skipped a beat.
BTW, it's a P11, of course. I haven't seen a PF9, yet.You know more about your bank balance than I do. I don't think either gun is a bad firearm. Spend how you wish. I don't consider the Kahr a Ferrari, either. That'd be more along the lines of custom one off race gun 1911 or something, maybe some hand built 1911 on a lightweight officer's. This comparo, assuming the Kahr really is better built, is more like Toyota Camry vs Lexus. If you got the money and just want it, drive the Lexus. I'll get there just as surely with my Camry.
MCgunner
Member
Buy Kel Tec, and if you ever wear it out, Kel Tec will replace it as many times as you ever wear it out. So, buy ONCE and get the best lifetime warranty in the business.
Of course, I've yet to have to use it. Just going on what Kel Tec owners tell me.Well, at least both these pistols have an equal chance of not working. I wouldn't get either one if it was to be your "only" firearm. At least, not until I had shot 400+ without any failures.
Edited to add: I plan to get a PF-9 at some point in the near future. But my eyes are open going in. Same would be said for the PM9.
Edited to add: I plan to get a PF-9 at some point in the near future. But my eyes are open going in. Same would be said for the PM9.
Mjoilner1911
Member
ok...so i'm going to make people mad, but here is my 2 cents. kel-tec is crap. kinda remind me of grendel, which was also crap. is having a kel-tec better than not having a gun? of course, but bear in mind the best use for it may be throwing it at the perp to distract him while you go find a real gun. i own a kahr pm .40 and trust my life to it on a daily basis. why do i think that this is such a better weapon than the kel-tec you might ask? well for starters there is not a complete web board and "owners group" that has been set up simply to answer one anothers questions about how to make the damn thing work right. secondly a major police department (nypd) has authorised them for off duty carry. not so with the kel-tec. it has been said that "all skill is in vain when an angel pisses in the flint lock of your musket" and every kel-tec i've ever held or shot smelled a lot like urine to me.
nuff said
nuff said
SniperStraz
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- 871
The fact that there is even an argument...
...for a pistol that is half the price is impressive by itself. Truth be told I have neither weapons, but I have heard nothing but good about the KT and I have heard about half the Kahr owners say that Kahrs are no good in plastic. They make great guns in SS but in plastic they just don't hack it. On the other hand the PF-9 hasn't been out long enough to decide but judging by their other guns it must be a good one. My 0.02
...for a pistol that is half the price is impressive by itself. Truth be told I have neither weapons, but I have heard nothing but good about the KT and I have heard about half the Kahr owners say that Kahrs are no good in plastic. They make great guns in SS but in plastic they just don't hack it. On the other hand the PF-9 hasn't been out long enough to decide but judging by their other guns it must be a good one. My 0.02
Mjoilner1911, that's a pretty good analysis of the KelTec from someone that doesn't own one-
I have both the Kahr and a PF-9 and I can tell you from personal experience that I have found nothing wrong with either.
There where some issues with the original production PF-9 pistols.
My PF-9 is not one of the first production, but is one of the later production guns and has been 100% in three outings.- .
I have both the Kahr and a PF-9 and I can tell you from personal experience that I have found nothing wrong with either.
There where some issues with the original production PF-9 pistols.
My PF-9 is not one of the first production, but is one of the later production guns and has been 100% in three outings.-
.alamo
Member
I've always found it interesting that it's not enough for many Kahr owners to praise their pistols in threads like this but they must also slam and deride Kel-Tec as if they had a personal vendetta.
romma
Member
Well I have a Kahr PM9, and I will gladly pick up the new Kel-Tec when I can afford it according to current priorities. My Kahr rocks! ANd I love my little P-32 Kel-Tec...
Vitamin G
Member
Good idea! Then I can carry one in each hand for the next 20 years.
Have you ever seen the kahr forum at glocktalk? http://www.glocktalk.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=111 I've never tried a kahr forum so I won't say anything one way or the other about them but as far as kahr problems and judging their reliability off forums...they look closer to kel-tec than glock.
I look at it as if you buy a tiny pistol expect the possibility of some problems to work out no matter if its a $250 keltec or a $1000 rohrbaugh. Personally I'd pass on the pf-9 at the moment as it doesn't look like it shoots 147gr reliably yet.
MCgunner
Member
I've heard the same about the P11, but never tried 'em in mine. I'm a 115 +P kinda guy.
Mine's 100% and always has been with 115 and I know guys like the 124 grains stuff in 'em. There may be a OAL problem with the 147 grain stuff in these little guns, not sure, just a guess. Like I say, I've never fired a 147 grain load in mine.iiibdsiil
Member
If you go to any gun specific forum (For the Kahr, sub-forum), you are going to see problems directly related that that specific brand.
It's like working at the Chevrolet dealer and saying "Well, Chevys come in every day with transmission problems."
It's like working at the Chevrolet dealer and saying "Well, Chevys come in every day with transmission problems."
wally
Member
Actually the PM9 vs. the PF-9 is not really appropiate because the PM 9 is significantly smaller and thus worth a premium for those who need the smallest.
Compare the P9 to the Pf-9 and you are talking about guns the same size, sure the P9 is nearly twice the cost. But if you are willing to give up interchangable sights you can get the Kahr CW9 much closer to the PF-9's price point.
IMHO the CW9 at $350-$380 vs. the PF-9 at $299-329 (today's gun show was the first Pf-9 I've seen, watched one sell at $299) is a much more apt comparrison and the PF-9 comes up short as far as I'm concerned -- rail on the PF-9 is goofy for a sub-compact and the Kahr CW9 trigger blows away the PF-9 trigger.
--wally.
Compare the P9 to the Pf-9 and you are talking about guns the same size, sure the P9 is nearly twice the cost. But if you are willing to give up interchangable sights you can get the Kahr CW9 much closer to the PF-9's price point.
IMHO the CW9 at $350-$380 vs. the PF-9 at $299-329 (today's gun show was the first Pf-9 I've seen, watched one sell at $299) is a much more apt comparrison and the PF-9 comes up short as far as I'm concerned -- rail on the PF-9 is goofy for a sub-compact and the Kahr CW9 trigger blows away the PF-9 trigger.
--wally.
KONY
Member
Now, I have no experience with either but judging from the stories of the folks on various forums, it seems that Kel-Tec offers superior customer service. I think this is an important selling point with small pistols that tend to be more temperamental than their bigger brethren.
shooter1
Member
I own dozens of pistols not counting the 6 Kel Tecs that live in my house. That includes the PF-9 that I picked up last week. I'll just say that mine are a lot of gun for the money. At all times one of the Kel Tecs is on my person, while the Glocks/Kimbers/Sigs/Smiths/CZs/Rugers/Taurus and others usually stay home. Mine all function as they should and are reasonably accurate. There is no snob appeal in owning one, but they are just soooooooo small, and light, that one goes with me everywhere. Sometimes in addition to another larger gun.
str1
str1
wally
Member
I've used custermer service of both Kel-Tec (P3AT) and Kahr (CW9, PM40 mag catch). Both were excellent and answered their Email. Kel-Tec was faster, but Kahr appoligized for the delay as they had a bad batch of CW9 frames last year and needed to wait for testing of the new batch before replacing mine. Kahr sent me the replacement PM40 mag catch in three days from the time I sent my Email about the problem, again they appoligised for having a bonding problem with the metal insert -- sent me three catches to be sure, only needed one, still have the others set aside just in case.
My P3AT self-destructed from the assembly pin walking out. They turned it around in 14 days total including Thanksgiving holiday. Replacement still had the pin walking out problem, but a solution offered at ktog.org cured the issue. I think Kel-Tec has since incorporated the mod.
So obviously I was disappointed to need to return my P3AT and CW9 but both have happy endings, and both were early production guns. I shoot the CW9 a lot. I carry the P3AT sometimes and the PM40 a lot. I got the CW9 so I could practice with cheap ammo and have been very happy with it after the initial problem.
I've a thing for guns that are small for their caliber they are a big sub-set of my collection despite their impracticality for general shooting, My carry needs are met until someday I feel rich enough to replace the P3AT with a Rorhbaugh, but I suspect I'll end up with a Pf-9 eventually.
My experience suggests customer service is not a reason to choose as both did right by me with no hassles.
--wally.
My P3AT self-destructed from the assembly pin walking out. They turned it around in 14 days total including Thanksgiving holiday. Replacement still had the pin walking out problem, but a solution offered at ktog.org cured the issue. I think Kel-Tec has since incorporated the mod.
So obviously I was disappointed to need to return my P3AT and CW9 but both have happy endings, and both were early production guns. I shoot the CW9 a lot. I carry the P3AT sometimes and the PM40 a lot. I got the CW9 so I could practice with cheap ammo and have been very happy with it after the initial problem.
I've a thing for guns that are small for their caliber they are a big sub-set of my collection despite their impracticality for general shooting, My carry needs are met until someday I feel rich enough to replace the P3AT with a Rorhbaugh, but I suspect I'll end up with a Pf-9 eventually.
My experience suggests customer service is not a reason to choose as both did right by me with no hassles.
--wally.
I also considered purchasing a Kahr PM9 as I heard great things about it especially the advanced (smooth) trigger design, however, after much research and emailing lots of folks I decided to stay with my P-11. My decision was based on the fact that both the Kel-Tec PF-9 and Kahr PM9 are single stack mags therefore carry 3 less rounds than the P-11. Since we’re already on the edge of superior stopping power with 9mm the extra three rounds are paramount. And the fact is the P-11 is BARELY wider than either the Kel-Tec PF-9 and Kahr PM9 in fact looking at the slides width they’re basically all the same so you give up nothing with the P-11 but gain extra rounds!
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