Kel-tec Sub 2000 questions/ opinions

[mountaindrew]

So I want a little more than a .22 for back county hiking and small game hunting and I am curios about the Sub2k
Anyone who has had one, tell me about the trigger. Is it double action or single, and how accurate can you be. If the sights limit the accuracy, has anyone mounted a optic with magnification? Also, what is the trajectory and usable range of a fast 9mm bullet for small game?
Any opinion are welcom form those who have used one, Thanks.

 

[MrMurphy]

It has a singleaction trigger and it can hit man size targets at 100 yards.

Haven't shot one much myself.

Be aware for 1 pound more and a slightly bigger package, you can get the Keltec SU-16, in 5.56mm/.223, uses AR-15 magazines, and is more accurate (say 2-3" groups at 100).


www.ktog.org is the Keltec owner's group, non-company-supported forum.

 

[Fumbler]

The trigger isn't a true SA, at least in the ones I've handled.
It's a DA that requires initial cocking, much like a Glock's trigger is a "DA."
The trigger isn't that great, the ones I've felt break at about 6-8 lbs and are squishy.
That said I think it'd be a fun gun to own.

Trajectory of a 9mm should be slightly better than a .22LR and much more destructive on real small game like squirrels.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

I think 9mm is way overkill on small game. If you want to do anything besides kill it that is (eat it, mount it, etc.)
That said, 6-8 lbs sounds about right, accuracy is all I expected, I could hit a 20 oz. bottle at 35 yards even when my front sight blade was gone, just line up the peep and hood, put the target in the center and squeeze. I have a red dot, but its just a 40mm BSA from Walmart on a weaver rail I fabbed up. Won't fold up all the way with the red dot on, but it will still fit in my 16"x12" pistol case.
I'd also steer you towards a Su-16, and I am no fan of the A & B models of the SU, but it sounds more like what you are looking for.

I have killed some rats in the barns with the Sub2000 with CCI #11 shot shells. They eject, so you can lay some pellets out in a hurry. No choke and 16" barrrel = close pattern, outside I think it would be useless. Hell on rats in the barns though. My cousin was with me that day with my SuperBlackHawk 10.5" with #9 shot, and a little spitz dog he has that loves to kill rats. It was fun.

 

[student]

The gun is most definitely single action by design, however depending on the specific gun it may feel more like a double action. My beretta 92 magwell S2K came with a sweet trigger pull. My father in law's did not (the trigger would almost bend back to the front of the grip before breaking) and he wouldn't send it back for lightening like most people do, so I had to fix it. Not an impossible job and no special tools required but not super easy either. Basically the problem was that the sear to hammer interface was at a bad angle that required lifting the already retracted hammer back a bit more (hey it was like a double action ) Bottom line is I fixed it to shoot like mine and they can shoot well, mine can easily do a group smaller than 2-3 inches at 50 yards with iron sights offhand. Fast handling gun, great reliability, lots of good high cap mags. For optics, lots of people use them and they work (check out KTOG or keltec range website forums). Trajectory would likely limit you to about 150 yrds or less. The gun is great for travel due to its size, and is awesome for self defense due to reduced recoil/noise/flash, increased accuracy and velocity as compared to pistols. For your use I would also suggest something else, like the SU-16 (I make due with a mini-14 for the same purpose) or even a bolt action .223 to complement your .22. But I would not feel useless with the S2K.

 

[browningguy]

I've got one with the Glock 17 mag well, it's a lot of fun to shoot. The triggers are generally pretty stiff. Mine started at about 11-12 pounds but after a couple of hundred rounds is now in the 6-8 pound range. Definately not a crisp 1911 trigger.

At 50 yards I can hold about 2" groups with bulk Winchester or Remington ammo, the sights look ugly but can be used to good effect.

At 100 yards I'm at 4-5" groups, ok for people size targets but tough to get a bunny or squirrel with that. Kel Tec gives you a trajectory chart with the Sub also.

If going with the 9mm Sub, for your use, I'd probably use a 124gr. or lighter +P round, you'll get decent velocity and as a previous poster mentioned that should get you a usable range of up to 150 yards depending on your eyes.

KelTec also makes a folding scope mount for the Sub, I haven't tried one myself so can't really comment on how usable they are.

 

[mountaindrew]

Thanks for your replies, guys. I have considered the su-16b but at this time it is just too expensive. at almost twice the cost of a sub it would mean the differnce between having a rifle to hike with this year, or waiting alot longer.

The other rifle I was considering was the springfield scout m-6 in .22 hornet until I found out what .22 hornet ammo cost (30-40$ per 50)

Another problem I have with buying a su-16 is that I already have a .223 saiga, and in my very small gun collection I dont have much room for duplicate roles.

I have looked at KTOG before but I will never ask for buying info at an enthusiast web site. It would be like going to a Corvette club web site and asking "Should I buy a Corvette?" the answer is always yes.

 

[shermacman]

I have the Sub2000 in .40 S&W. It is a blast to shoot, the sites come up on target beautifully, the .40 out of that barrel packs one hellofawhollop! Coke cans at 50 yards splatter in lovely arcs! The magazines fit my Glock .40 which makes for a good thing also.

The trigger is atrocious. Sloppy, stupid long pull, breaks at around 500 pounds. You are going to want to clean that up. That said, it is a fun gun! Optics are a problem, mounting is a big issue, but with those sites it really doesn't matter, off-hand shooting is easy.

My only other comment is that "small game" will be even "smaller" when you hit them...

 

[LeadPumper]

Sub-2000

As for a hunting 'rifle'. I'd suggest a used lever gun in any caliber (I have a .357 Winchester that works well). The Sub-2000 trigger is long and squishy to be sure, if you can find a good one, or want to work on one, good luck.

My S&W 59 9mm has been fairly reliable, though do NOT use aluminum CCI shells with it (factory warning). Out of battery discharge can happen. Mine had to be shipped back to Kel-Tec to be rebuilt (which they did free of charge).

The sights are course, but quick. 100 yard accuracy is minute of pie plate.

I have one of the 'fold away' sight mounts that replaces the front handguards, but only allows a 1' optic to be used. It never worked quite right, and wouldn't return 'to zero' after being folded up.

Overall it's a fun gun, a plinker. If you want better accuracy or a better trigger, look elsewhere.



-LeadPumper

 

[Bridger]

Those of you that have them, how has hollow point ammo worked in them? I was thinking my girlfriend should get one over a shotgun for defensive purposes, since it handles much better for her.

 

[Fumbler]

I looked at the schematics and it turns out I was wrong, it is a true SA.
The trigger though feels like a bad version of a Sig's with a long pretravel before the transfer bar engages the sear.
The plastic trigger's flex doesn't help the feel that much. it's still not a bad gun though, especially at the price.

 

[swingcatt]

It's a fun, semi-accurate gun, but that trigger is horid. Somebody said "squishy" and I'm seconding that. I'm trying to make time to produce a new one out of aluminum, but the desire I have to do so seems inversly proportional to the free time I have available!

SC

 

[student]

It is too bad that the trigger has to be such a problem on an otherwise good gun. Like I said, it can be fixed. If anyone wants detail info I can help, of course I am not taking responsibilty for the result, but I think it worth trying. If somehow you did manage to screw anything up, KT customer service is quite useful I hear. As far as hollow points I have tried 90 and 115 grain corbons, 147 grain winchester white box, and 115 grain silvertips. Never a failure to feed or fire. Also used the really hot Hirtenbirger submachine gun 124grn fmj ammo that may destroy most handguns. The main armorer at KT said it was ok in limited amounts (due to the strong recoil spring that my wife cannot pull back), but others have said that this is pure lunacy. That said I don't make it a regular practice.
What do you have in mind for small game upon which the Sub would be used?

 

[Roland of Gilead]

My S2K is a Glock mag well, 9mm, I forgot to mention that. I use 124gr. +P Speer Gold Dots, I have had a few hang up on the ramp, but nothing a little polishing didn't remedy. I just put some jewlers powder on a 20 guage shotgun swab and put it on my drill, then used it to polish up the ramp while the carbine was folded up. Nothing too hard. After 100-150 rds or so it will dirty up enough to hang up about once a mag, you have to put rearward pressure on the charging handle, and the bullet will nose up and seat itself. If you fold up the gun and clean the residue off the ramp (wipe it on your britches leg), you're good to go for another 100 rounds or so. Roundnose feed like a charm. Look into Corbon PowRBalls maybe.
The trigger never bothered me, but I have NYs on my Glocks.
It will penetrate car doors better than buckshot, no doubt, and has nowhere near the recoil of a shotgun, though sometimes it will pop you one if you let it creep up on you. I have not shot a S2K in .40 cal, but I bet it would be sweet. I am trying to convince a buddy of mine with a S&W 40VE to get one. He is coveting mine, so I think he'll wind up with one too.