Kel-Tec Sub2000 vs. MP5

[hso]

As to appearance - neither the MP5 or the Sub wins any beauty contest (although the Sub is so fugly that it's cute ). That tiara belongs to the Beretta.

As noted the range of optics for the Sub is limited, options for style are limited, but I don't think anyone knows if the MP5 is more durable or accurate than the Sub because no one has tested them to the same criteria (that I'm aware of). This "of course" verges on snobery since none of us know or knows anyone that does know which is the better gun. The idea of comparing the two is so silly on the face of it that it merits consideration. Trouble is I'm not will to test my Sub to destruction nor do I know anyone else that has an MP5 that's willing to test theirs to that point either.

 

[AK103K]

My MP5 has 15000+ rounds through it now, a good number of them full power surplus submachine gun ammo. In all that the only thing that ever failed was the roller retainer in the bolt.(couple dollar fix) It worked fine broken until I took it apart to clean it. It will still make head shots at 100 yards all day long with Federal 9BP using a Beeman SS3 1.5x4 on an ARMS claw mount. Its been refinished, painted, unpainted, painted again and unpainted again. Its still got its funky HK trigger, but that trigger will still let you shoot groups the size of a half dollar at 25 yards, and thats full mag groups not 3 or 5 round groups. If you shoot it on full auto at 10 yards, shooting 3 round bursts(just using the trigger, no 3 round pack) it will consistantly give you three seperate groups, one at point of aim, one slightly higher to the right, and one more slightly higher than that.(I'm right handed) It will look like you fired three seperate groups each with its own aim point. It will do this all day long too. Its trigger is controlable enough to give you 1 round bursts once you learn it. Its so easy to shoot a 5 year old can shoot it and on full auto too, with trigger control to boot. I know this for a fact as my kids have been shooting it since they were 5 and were getting 2-3 round bursts without any trouble.(I wouldnt give them a full mag until the could prove they could. Within a couple of mags, they were easily keeping 3 round bursts on an IPSC target at 10 yards.)
I'm not planning to shoot mine until destruction, but I will keep shooting it till it stops and fix it. When you catch up with your Kel Tec, let me know how its doing, and we'll start the test from there.

 

[iamkris]

Behold...the new thing to "X vs. Y" argue over

 

[MLC]

iamkris, this argument is more like comparing a chef prepared apple pie to 7-11 orange cupcake.
Quality of engineering and ergonomics are two things that come to mind when comparing the two carbines.
Why not compare a Colt or clone 9mm carbine to the MP5?
That might be more of an analitical discussion.

 

[USGuns]

Obtainable compromise

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that a KelTech Sub2000 can be directly compared to an HK MP5. Everyone would agree they're weapons in 2 completely different classes. The price/quality/engineering/features, etc. of the MP5 are clearly superior. HOWEVER, given that most of us can't legally obtain an MP5 and wouldn't be able to justify the cost -- the Sub2000 offers an affordable and legally obtainable alternative that provides many (but clearly not all) of the features. Plus it has advantages of lighter weight and superior portability.

KT: http://www.kel-tec.com/prod03.htm
HK: http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/mp5frameset.html

 

[Gordon]

Can I compare my Calico 950 too? The crazy thing has never jammed, puts brass at you feet, digests real hot ammo and holds 50 rounds with the spring relaxed! Make that 100 rounds out of the one C mag I got, but I must confess that C mag affects the balance negatively for me. I sold my HK 94 right before first ban as it was a lot of gun for a little cartridge. I bought Calico cheap on a lark and it has turned out to be a real fun gun, nothing like ripping off a 50 round burst if tree huggers are in the area!

 

[JShirley]

I consider myself a Kel-Tec fan. Though I don't post anymore, really, I am a member of the owner's group. I have two KT firearms with serial numbers under 150. I have used KT's for years, and have used them for firearms classes.

I have a Sub-rifle. I like it quite a bit. There is NO COMPARISON with an HK MP5, other than both weapons being chambered in 9mm.

I believe there are potentially situations where the KT could be preferable to the HK, but even though I believe that the HK is overpriced and overweight, I will bet not even George Kelgren would attempt to compare the two. There are extant HK's that have fired more rounds than you will in your entire lifetime.

Kel-Tec makes affordable, innovative firearms. With the P-32 (and possibly, the P-3AT), they have a world-class offering, in that, faced with any other choice in the caliber, some knowledgeable users will choose the KT. This cannot be said of the Sub-2000. To even attempt to compare an inexpensive product with a horrid trigger to the world standard in submachine guns is laughable.

Blain, have you ever fired an MP5? I just want to be sure I understand your belief that they are overrated.

John

"HK UMP: the poor man's MP5"

 

[Tropical Z]

It isnt a fair comparison,but most of you are being WAYYYYYYYY too serious and COMPLETELYYYYYYYYYY missing the point!!! The Kel-Tec is a fun looking and competent 9mm carbine in its own right and affordable to the average Joe or Suzy who couldnt even think of owning an MP5.Come on people,lighten up!!!

 

[JShirley]

C'mon, man. I'm a KT fan.

I'm also a realist. I can do a fluff and buff on a P-11, but the Sub-2000 (unlike the Sub-9) has an abysmal trigger. To pretend otherwise robs you of credence with anyone who has taken the modicum of time required to actually handle a Sub-2000.

John

 

[AUTIGER04]

What can either do that a Hi Point cant?

 

[Hkmp5sd]

MP5...

What can either do that a Hi Point cant?

Be sold very rapidly for an excess of $10,000 and it can get you 10 years in Club Fed for having an unregistered one. Oh yea, and empty a 30-round magazine with a single pull of the trigger on target with great accuracy.

 

[USGuns]

Alternatives?

So what other firearm out there IS an obtainable alternative to the MP5? Is there one? Maybe the feather-USA Rav-9mm? I've always thought a 9mm version of an AR, properly outfitted, would be a good one as well.

 

[Black92LX]

Comparing an MP5 to a Keltec is like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Ford Pinto. I mean, they both have wheels and can get you where you want to go, so what's the difference?

I take offense to this comment. the pinto has real potential, it just needs a little boost

 

[TechBrute]

Comparing the Kel-Tec to any HK is like comparing the .223 to the .308... oh wait, it's more like comparing the 9mm to the .45ACP... no... more like comparing the 1911 to a Glock... hmmm...

Seriously, there is no flying way in hell that the KT is as accurate as the MP5, and the longer you shoot, the more apparent that difference would become.

 

[JShirley]

I like the Kel-Tec, but it's just not realistic to compare an arm with one that costs 5x as much...especially when the expensive one is the world standard.

And I don't even especially like the MP5. Sheesh.