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Keltec pf-9, friendly warning about Keltec

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by tightgroup tiger, Oct 29, 2011.

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  1. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I recently purchased a Keltec pf-9 from my local gun dealer. I chose it for it small size and the power of the 9mm over the .380s.

    I took it to the range and with factory practice ammo shot 3 bulleyes and 3 in the next ring out at 10yds on the six shots.

    Aside from the visious recoil that goes along with small pistols like this, I was extreemly pleased with it. (and still am). I really love the thing.

    I have no complaints with the quality, have not had a single ftf, fte, or any problem at all for that matter.

    A month later I get a call from the dealer I purchased this from that I had to bring it back to the shop, asap!

    He told me to bring my plastic case and everything that came with it.

    After getting there I find out that the S/N and bar code on the outside of the box didn't match the S/N on the pistol.

    The number registered to me was the # on the box that matched the barcode since most gun dealers inventory their guns from these barcodes.

    We had to re-register my pf-9 to me with the other s/n before I could carry it again. We found out that Keltec thought they manf. 2 pistols with the same s/n but in actuality someone at Keltec switched the pistols from their respective cases and I ended up with one of them and didn't know it until the other one was sold from a different dealer a month and 1/2 later.

    I wonder how long I would have walked around with an un-lincenced, un-registered conceiled firearm, until the police would have caught me with it.

    I urge everyone out there that when purchasing a pistol from any dealer to compair s/ns of the box to the s/n of the gun in the box before leaving any store.

    Thankfully I never had a traffic check or permit check while carrying this thing or my wife would have been bailing me out of jail.

    As I said, I have no complaints about the quality of the pistol and think it is a good value for the money, but will trust Keltec or any other gun manuf again without checking for my self to make sure all s/n's match.

    TT
     
  2. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    well, probably forever ... what's this "registration" nonsense? Do you live somewhere that it really matters?

    it can't hurt, but I'm checking for warranty reasons, I don't live in an episode of CopDrama where everything is registered and we're all searched on a regular basis.
     
  3. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    Wait is the concealed carry permit tied to a specific pistol? I thought after you got your license you could carry whatever you wanted. Is this a state or federal restriction?

    The only thing I thought was that if you qualified with a revolver you couldn't carry an automatic. I didn't think that you had to register and carry a specific firearm when you got your permit.

    This has piqued my interest, could somebody clarify?
     
  4. mbopp

    mbopp Member

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    In NY you need a permit, and all your guns' serial numbers are on the permit. To add / delete a handgun means a trip to the County Clerks office, and the S/N has to be on your permit before a gun shop can release it to you.
    And yeah, I always verify the S/N on the gun and dealer reciept match.
     
  5. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    My conceiled carry permit is for any gun I carry, yes.

    The other gun that was sold was registered to me and mine would have be registered to them.

    Hypothetically speaking, If the other one would have been stolen and a crime was committed with it, the gun used in the crime would have shown up being registered to me.

    This would have been a sticky situation to get out of.

    This would have been visa-versa with the other person that bought the other one.

    As far as a traffic check goes, where I live I have to notify the officer that I have a cc permit at which case he would check the s/n to see if it were stolen and he would have found out that this s/n isn't registered to me and here, our cc pistols have to be registered to be legal to carry.
     
  6. dusty14u

    dusty14u Member

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    Unlicensed?
    Unregistered?

    Exactly what state do you live in? All of my guns are unlicensed and unregistered in Virginia.
     
  7. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    rare

    yeah, I bet that really cuts down on crime!
    (oh, wait, it just makes more malum prohibitum criminals out of lawful citizens, and introduces a host of infringements.
     
  8. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I live in North Carolina.

    It was my understanding that in order to carry a pistol conceiled in this state it had to be registered by the state to be legal.

    If I'm wrong I appoligize. I had a permit in PA for 25yrs. but have only had one here for one year. We also have to take a conceiled carry class and qualify at a range to get the permit in the first place.

    The Sherrif's office here wants to know who is carrying what.

    My point was that if the gun that was registered to me was used in a crime I would have been in a lot of trouble for a while, and layers would probably been involved to get me out of it.
     
  9. fxstchewy

    fxstchewy Member

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    I live in NC too and we don't have a "registration" and with my permit i can carry whatever i chose.
     
  10. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I think some of you are missing the point.

    If you purchase a new handgun from a dealer in any state, it will be registered to you. It has nothing to do with the gun you want to carry.

    The s/n of the gun I purchased ended up being registered to someone else, and theirs to me.

    If their gun (which was registered to me) was used in a crime, the police would have came to see me about.

    I wouldn't have appreciated that.

    I'm just glad Keltec thought they made two guns with the same number and started checking into it or I would never have known.
     
  11. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    I can see boxes and guns getting mixed up. Did your dealer record the serial number off the box? He should have gotten it off the actual, physical gun. The next time, hopefully he will know better.

    It still isn't clear to me why he had to bring you down to the shop and "reregister" everything, though. Dealers do write down the s/n on the back of the 4473 form. Maybe it was CYA on his part.
     
  12. Kiln

    Kiln Member

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    You beat me to it. They should always record the numbers on the actual gun to prevent it coming back to bite them in the butt later on.
     
  13. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

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    If you live in a free state, it is not "registered" to you. It is logged out of the FFL's log book as transferred to you and the serial number is recorded on the 4473 you fill out. These are not "registration" forms.

    And Kel-Tec is not the only company capable of making these mistakes in mis-boxing, labeling and shipping product. I recall at my old job once receiving a Remington 750 Carbine in .308 in a box for a .30-06 750 Rifle. (The serial number on the label did match the one on the receiver IIRC.) We ended up sending that one back.
     
  14. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I agree that the dealer probably made the larger of the two mistakes, and will guarentee that if I buy anymore from handguns from them or anyone else, that I will check my self what they wrote down for serial #s.
    Again, as I previously stated, I am glad Keltec was on the ball and caught this, no one else did until the dealers were notified by Keltec. My hat is off to Keltec for being on the ball.
     
  15. PRM

    PRM Member

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    Agree +1... the 4473 is not registration.

    You also can legally sell/trade/dispose of a gun out of you collection without going through an FFL. Most gun enthusiasts have previously owned guns that they are now clueless as to their present ownership or have any idea how many hands they may have gone through. The only time the serial number would ever come up again on an FFL form is if that gun passed through another FFL (not registration). The police might one day ask you if you ever owned it, but no crime has been committed if you traded it 30 years ago. At least that's how the federal law works in the free states.
     
  16. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    When I bought my CZ PCR in 2007, the salesman obviously took no chances. It would have been much easier to read the serial-numbered box, but he took the trouble to squish the oil-filled plastic bag the gun was packaged in against the frame to read the number. :D
     
  17. dusty14u

    dusty14u Member

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    Wow. Lots of misinformation you have on handguns. As noted above, there is no registration. At least in North Carolina. The FFL keeps the 4473 for his own records and the feds are prevented from registering by law. Your carry permit in North Carolina covers you, not any guns. You can carry whatever you wish as long as it is legal to buy. The sherriff has no clue how many or what kind of guns you own. Due to Jim Crow laws he can issue or not issue permits to buy a gun unless you have a CHP. That is as far as his authority goes.

    If the police ran the serial numbers of your gun they would only be able to check it against a list of reported stolen guns. They have no clue who bought what where. The serial number on a plastic case has no bearing on anything. The FFL has to write the serial number from the actual gun, not the box it came in.

    One of the few things factual is that yes, you do need to inform the LEO IF you are carrying.(in NC) I have been pulled once in NC and the cop barely acknowledged the fact when I handed him my Va CHP. It was a non-issue.

    I will be moving from Va to NC in the near future as my wife and I have decided to live there. I am very familiar with all the laws there because there are notable differences between Va and NC. NC is fondly referred to as the Mass. of the south. Hopefully I will be engaged in getting some of the archaic Jim Crow laws tossed and helping to bring NC into the mainstream of 2nd Amendment America.
     
  18. hardluk1

    hardluk1 member

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    Het tight group tiger , did you contact KT to see if this happened there OR your dealer screwed up and swapped 2 pistols with you pay'n attention and tthen it was caught. W ith every fiream i have ever bought that I remember I have watched the dealer check the firearm to the box to see that all numbers match. Check with KT just to see who screwed up.

    I to am in NC and one of 2 handguns I carry, one is a used but check kahr and the other is a new kahr. IF YOU BUY A USED FIREARM JUST BESURE TO COVER YOUR BUTT WITH A PICTURE AND LIECENCE INFO OF THE PERSON YOU BOUGHT IT FROM.
     
  19. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I don't think this dealer will make this mistake again, he was pretty upset.

    But will I trust him again? No. I will be checking all number my self from now on.

    Looking back on this post, I wish I would have kept Keltec's name out of this. I think they are very reputable and really like their products so far.

    I hope I didn't give anyone any wrong ideas about them. As stated by someone else previously all the manufactures make mistakes.

    And I will be watching for them from now on.

    The dealer is more to blame for not checking the number on the gun.
     
  20. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    Hardluk1
    The dealer blamed it on kt, now I am starting to wounder is I was told the truth.

    I honestly don't have proof if both gun were sold by them or as the dealer said, another dealer sold the other.

    Mistakes are made by everyone, my intention with this post was to make people think when they purchase a firearm to check the numbers themselves.

    This is a reputable dealer who has been in business for quite some time and I will buy from him again.

    I will just be more careful next time.
     
  21. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    dusty14u

    I'm glad you clarified this for me and educated me on the how this all works.

    I understand alot better now. In NC in the county I live in you have to purchase a "purchase permit" from the Sheriff and present it to the ffl dealer upon purchase.
    Does the sheriff not get a notification of the s/n of the firearm you purchased from the dealer using this purchase permit? I was just wondering.
     
  22. dusty14u

    dusty14u Member

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    The Sheriff doesn't have a clue what you bought with the permit. This was part of the Jim Crow era where they prevented blacks from being able to defend themselves. You are supposed to present the permit even during face to face sales but I don't know what would prevent you from using the permit over and over.

    My wife just bought a gun permit and other than a slight inconvenience had no problems. She works 3 blocks from the courthouse and sheriffs office. Different counties have different requirements, depending upon if the sheriff is pro or anti 2nd Amendment. Even when they use the NCIS system the feds have no clue whether they are accepting or denying a handgun or a long gun. Just that you are cleared to purchase a weapon. They can keep no record of what you have bought, whether pistol or long gun. Some states have enacted their own registrations and licensing , which is why I questioned what state you live in.

    One of the best , and most informative sites is GNRC ( Grass Roots NC)

    http://www.grnc.org/firearms.htm

    You do have to be careful in NC because although they have preemption they still allow localities to make whatever dim witted laws they can come up with and not challenge them. Such as in Cary, NC. Go to GNRC and sign up for their news email. It is very informative as to whats going on in NC concerning the 2nd Amendment issues.

    I guess we have become to accustomed to papers and tv media stating that johnny Appleseed had a permit or the pistol was licensed to so and so. That is completely wrong in most states and the media only regurgitates what they have seen from Hollywood and TV cop shows.
     
  23. Sulaco

    Sulaco Member

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    There's no such thing as "gun registration" in NC. When you guy a gun from an FFL, he simply records the sale for his records. The form you fill out is to verify that you can legally obtain a gun, not to keep up with who has what. Think about if you bought from an individual. There's no official exchange of information at all. The same goes for it you have a gun replaced by the manufacturer. They just send you the gun. At least that's how it is in NC and SC. I suppose it could be different elsewhere.
     
  24. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    If the gun was dumped at the scene of a crime....court order makes mfg say which dealer it went to... dealer says who they sold it to.

    If the gun was stolen before the crime, that S/N reported stolen could also have been from the box which would have been in correct.

    IIRC, The feds traced the S/N from a rear axle to the mfg of the axle...to the truck the axle was installed in... to the rental company truck was sold to ... to the renter of the truck which was Timothy McVeigh.


    Maybe he shouldnt have said 'registered' but the OP,,,, the concern is valid.
     
  25. 3KillerBs

    3KillerBs Member

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    I live in NC and there's no gun registration here.

    You have to have a pistol purchase permit or a CHL to make the purchase, but the gun itself is not registered.
     
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