Kerry credited with 20 kills in Vietnam

[Bartholomew Roberts]

1) One of his purple hearts was for a minor wound, arguably not serious enough to warrant the decoration but it was not Kerry who awarded it.

No; but it was Kerry who wrote himself up for that particular Purple Heart.
This was at a time when three Purple Hearts got you out of the combat zone.

To me, it looks like Kerry was engaged in the exact same behavior George Bush was engaged in - neither one wanted to be in Vietnam and both worked the system to the best of their ability to avoid it. Bush went into the Air National Guard. Kerry joined the Navy (which at the time was mostly offshore from Vietnam).

Kerry applied for Swift boats, for whatever reason - inspired by his hero JFK and PT109 maybe - and found himself not patroling a coastline as Swift boats had been doing previously; but running riverine patrols in-country. In four months he applied for every possible Purple Heart he could have earned and received the three he needed to get the hell out of dodge.

I really don't care about that as Kerry certainly wasn't alone in wanting out of Vietnam; but I find it hypocritical in the extreme for him to criticize President Bush on his service in that light. Even more ridiculous considering that Kerry and the VVAW adovcated much more extreme measures to avoid service in Vietnam and celebrated those who did.

 

[HBK]

Too bad he didn't get credit for the hundreds or thousands of US soldiers for whose death he was responsible by his treasonous lies to the senate about war crimes. Too bad he didn't get credit for the POWs we lost because of him. Kerry is nothing more than a traitor.

 

[bountyhunter]

No; but it was Kerry who wrote himself up for that particular Purple Heart.This was at a time when three Purple Hearts got you out of the combat zone.

To me, it looks like Kerry was engaged in the exact same behavior George Bush was engaged in - neither one wanted to be in Vietnam and both worked the system to the best of their ability to avoid it. Bush went into the Air National Guard..

Really, that is what you conclude from the transcripts of Kerry's service?

No offense, but if you read what happened, what your saying makes no sense at all. He wrote up one fake purple heart and then stood in front of exploding bombs to pick up enough shrapnel to make the last two?????

And on the third one (which you claim was his ultimate goal for a ticket out) where he was wounded by exploding ordnance and a Green Beret was blown off the deck of his boat into a river.... John "Three Shaving Cuts and I'm Outta Here" Kerry then jumped his shot up ass into a stinking river to save the guy???? You owe Kerry an apology, but you have a lot of company for that one.

 

[Quartus]

Hmmmm.... Dems made an issue of Bush's record, and Bush has now released ALL of his records, including medical records, which are kind of personal.


Kerry made an issue of his own record, promised to release all of them, then refused, and it's "slimy" to call him on the discrepancies in his record?



Weird sense of fairness, there.

However, while some people do stupid things when they were young, and grow up to be very respectable people. Kerry did very respectable things when he was young, and grew up to be a person of little integrity. He supports his postions by lieing and distorting the facts about others.

Well, substitute "SOME respectable things for a very short time" and I could go along with that.

 

[spacemanspiff]

imho, War Heroes are the ones who wont answer questions about the terrible things they saw/done during battle, instead saying "No comment".

not gleefully announcing it in order to further ones own personal agenda.

 

[Warbow]

bountyhunter said:

And FWIW, Kerry's CO went so far as to say that his leaving the service was the navy's loss of a fine officer.... contrast that to Bush's reserve CO's comments along the lines of: "Who? I never saw him."

Here's what the CO (Brigadier General William Turnipseed) had to say earlier this year in an NBC interview after the media were getting rabid about the the "Bush was AWOL" 2000 Boston Globe story (sparked by comments from DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe):

George Bush wasn't even famous back then, so why would I notice this outsider showing up at a couple of meetings. I just wouldn't.

I don't remember whether he came or not. Our unit had about 900- 1,000 men and he could have attended many meetings without me ever knowing it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4242877/

Try again!

 

[fix]

Kerry should release all his records. Precedent has been established now that the dems forced Bush to do the same. However, Kerry's record should not be nitpicked. He did his time and recieved an honorable discharge. Unless there is something in those records that shows that he is either physically or mentally unfit to hold the office of President, the issue needs to be dropped. It is my sincere hope that this embarassing mess will blow over in a few days, for the sake of both political parties.

 

[Thumper]

Me too, fix. My problems with Kerry have little to do with his wartime service, or for that matter, even with his dispicable behavior upon his return to the States.

My problem is his ridiculous voting record. That's what we should be keying on.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

No offense, but if you read what happened, what your saying makes no sense at all.

OK, here is what I said: "In four months he applied for every possible Purple Heart he could have earned and received the three he needed to get the hell out of dodge".

What about that doesn't make sense to you? Whether it was a scratch on the forearm or any other wound Kerry wrote it up; because he knew he needed three Purple Hearts to get out of Vietnam.

He wrote up one fake purple heart and then stood in front of exploding bombs to pick up enough shrapnel to make the last two?????

Where did I ever say that Kerry wrote up a fake Purple Heart or obtained his others dishonestly, bountyhunter? I'd appreciate the small courtesy of you taking the time to read what *I* wrote and not attributing other arguments to me. I'll try to do the same for you. I said that it looks to me like Kerry wanted out of Vietnam, knew three Purple Hearts was a ticket out and wrote himself up for a Purple Heart at any opportunity he had.

Kerry could have opted to stay in Vietnam after receiving his three Purple Hearts. He didn't. He asked to be removed after four months. After basing most of his early political career on those 120 days of experience, he now seeks to bash someone else for doing the same thing he did - working within the system to stay the hell out of Vietnam.

During Vietnam VVAW was actively encouraging soldiers to desert and draftees to flee to Canada while advocating universal amnesty for them. Now John Kerry is going to bag on Bush for serving in the ANG? That doesn't sound like hypocrisy to you?

 

[Obiwan]

I think Kerry's war record is being questioned BECAUSE he has shown himself to be a shifty slimeball...

I do not find it at all hard to believe that he manipulated the system to get out early.

But...that is neither here nor there....but I have to admit...he was pretty vocal about President Bush and his service.

What I have the most problem with is

1. His voting record...when he actually shows up to vote.

2. His dismal attendance record in the Senate..his state deserves better

3. His lame attempts to pull his foot out of his mouth...

 

[fix]

His dismal attendance record in the Senate..his state deserves better

If you ask me, his state deserves exactly what they have! :banghead:

 

[Quartus]

Kerry should release all his records. Precedent has been established now that the dems forced Bush to do the same. However, Kerry's record should not be nitpicked. He did his time and recieved an honorable discharge. Unless there is something in those records that shows that he is either physically or mentally unfit to hold the office of President, the issue needs to be dropped. It is my sincere hope that this embarassing mess will blow over in a few days, for the sake of both political parties.

Sounds fair to me.


Just don't go calling that slimeball a hero. Save that for the men he left behind - forever - in POW camps.

 

[greyhound]

My problem is his ridiculous voting record

I agree 100%. Too many Presidential campaigns are spent on looking for these stupid "gotchas" and not enough on the issues.

Totally ignoring what I just wrote, I read an editorial today that described Kerry as looking like a "sad tree"!

 

[Monkeyleg]

What I find amazing is that in the 1990's, the Dem's discounted Clinton's draft-dodging, and said that VietNam experience wasn't an issue. During the 1996 Republican convention, Katie Couric made some comment about "why do they keep talking about Bob Dole's WWII record?" The guy lost his right arm, for cryin' out loud.

Now, all of a sudden, military service is a big factor. If Dean had gotten the nomination, you can rest assured it would not be.

I'm waiting for the part where the twelve clowns jump out of the Volkswagen. That's always my favorite.

 

[w4rma]

Hmmmm.... Dems made an issue of Bush's record, and Bush has now released ALL of his records, including medical records, which are kind of personal.

You mean Bush's dental records?

Wow, there are some pretty vicious comments that some of you guys have made about Sen. Kerry's time in Vietnam. They remind me of the way that Sen. Cleland and Sen. McCain were treated by their Republican opponents.

 

[Quartus]

At least we know who's hiding something.

 

[mountainclmbr]

If I believed John Kerry, which I don't, 20 people killed is nothing. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and many, many more totalitarians have killed more than Kerry. At least for now.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

w4rma:

Wow, there are some pretty vicious comments that some of you guys have made about Sen. Kerry's time in Vietnam. They remind me of the way that Sen. Cleland and Sen. McCain were treated by their Republican opponents.

Nothing to compare with the content of hundreds of slanted and false web articles you have posted here on THR over the past several months, or your attempt to pass off a doctored Reagan Proclamation from 1983 purporting to show him praising the Taliban.

Your deception didn't quite fly of course, since the Taliban wasn't created until the 1990's.

Cleland, Kerry...Wow, you leftists sure do go for those gun-grabber politicians. Which one of your heros has the highest rating from the Brady Campaign?

Looks like its Ichabod sKerry with a Brady rating of....100%

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?inds=42

 

[BowStreetRunner]

bountyhunter,
the Democrats kinda started the whole military record thing, in politics you get back what you dish out
personally it doesnt matter that much to me
Kerry could have killed 1000 VC and saved 500 drowing sailors, but as Bart Roberts so eloquently put it:"I'm not voting for anyone with a 100% rating from the Brady Campaign."


BSR

 

[cracked butt]

What I find amazing is that in the 1990's, the Dem's discounted Clinton's draft-dodging, and said that VietNam experience wasn't an issue. During the 1996 Republican convention, Katie Couric made some comment about "why do they keep talking about Bob Dole's WWII record?" The guy lost his right arm, for cryin' out loud.

Monkeyleg beat me to it.


Bob Dole's honorable military record carried no weight with liberals, and now the liberals are touting anyone in their corner with a military record.
Remember Wes Clark?

 

[Cactus]

Sen. John Kerry is a true American hero and a patriot, imho.

Then you must think that Lt. William Calley is the next best thing to Audie Murphy! Maybe you should demand that Calley be awarded the Medal of Honor; after all, he killed more civilians than Kerry did.

 

[Greg Bell]

I hate to agree with the commies here, but I think the Repubs need to shut up about Kerry's record. Kerry is a sleazy, warmed-over Kennedy retread. However, like most folks, he has done a few things right in his life. Basically, he seems to have served with honor. If he worked the system to get out, then so be it. I can't say that I blame him. But it is stupid for the Republicans to keep drawing attention to his war record--especially when Bush's is definitely not as impressive.

What we need to be doing is talking about his nearly treasonous conduct upon his return. He peddled leftist lies about our troops to fuel his early political career--and he did it while boys were still out there dying. I can never forgive him for that. If John Kerry was the hero he claims he is he would apologize, publicly to the men and women he slandered. If it was the irresponsible ratings of an angry twenty-something that is fine--but don't minimize the damage you did.



GHB

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Discrepancies noted in Kerry's record

By Michael Kranish, Boston Globe Staff | April 23, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Vietnam combat records posted on John F. Kerry's campaign website for the month of January 1969 as evidence of his service aboard swift boat No. 94 describe action that occurred before Kerry was skipper of that craft, according to the officer who said he commanded the boat at the time.

On the site, the Massachusetts senator is described as the skipper of Navy boat No. 94 during several actions in late January 1969.

However, Edward Peck, who was the skipper of the 94 before Kerry took over, said combat reports posted by the campaign for January 1969 involve action when he was the skipper, not Kerry. Peck, who was seriously wounded in fighting that took place on Jan. 29, 1969, said he believes Kerry campaign aides made a mistake in claiming Kerry as skipper of the 94 at that time.

 

[Obiwan]

What good does it do to have W4RMA and IDD on my ignore list if you guys keep quoting them

Cleland only got "savaged" because he was made out to be some kind of war hero...the man fumbled a grenade...you shouldn't get a medal for CAUSING friendly fire casualties...even if it is you.

Kind of like Dean crying about his brother being "Lost" in Vietnam...it is only later you find out he was over there as a protestor.



(In his defense...I don't think it was Cleland that "spun" his service)


As for the Republicans savaging McCain....what exactly do you think the Dems would have done if he got the nomination????

 

[Greg Bell]

Clealand did not frag himself. It was another guy in his unit. Although, Cleland himself believed he had done it for some time. Clealand sucked. He was a Liberal Democrat running as a Southern Democrat. His record finally caught up with him. He used his war wounds to his advantage for a long time (heck, I would too!), but eventually everybody realized that he just didn't fit in in Georgia. Most of the whining about his patriotism is post-loss B.S. See, the Democrats assumed Clealand would win. He had always won comfortably (it was hard to run against him, every criticism was batted down by some Dem with the "Hey, he is a war hero...and he is in a wheelchair so you can't say anything" crap.) So, don't shed any tears for Max. Chambliss is a 100% NRA, kick-butt, super Republican. So I am pretty happy.

GHB