I have recently introduced my 9 year old daughter to shooting and she loves it. So far she has shot my '94, Single six, and 10-22. The problem is now my 4 year old son has to do it too. Today he shot the Single Six with shorts (and Dad's help)...he is hooked! This is great except he does not fit any of my guns. I am not crazy about the "cricket" .22's and would like to get a small pistol for them. I was thinking along the lines of a Ruger Mk II. Does anyone have any recomendations for a small pistol or rifle?
"kid sized" small bore
- Thread starter cwm13
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Well, there are truly tiny 22 pistols that likely wouldn't aid you in terms of safely/effectively teaching the young'uns to shoot (Beretta Bobcat, NAA revolvers, Astra Cub (22 shorts only), etc) that were made to be pocket, as opposed to target, pistols.
Having said that, the old HK4 is still neat, in my book. One for sale: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127140252
You're likely on the right track - maybe an old Ruger (I, II, or III), High Standard, Colt Woodsman, etc. Or a new Ruger, Buckmark, Beretta Neos, etc. This thing is pretty neat: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127347684
Heck, depending on your tastes, even the Ruger 10/22 Chargers (10/22 "pistol" with a bipod) might be handy for teaching small kids (thinking of the bipod and small size).
Finally, I don't know how adaptable it would be, as I've never changed out the pieces when handling one, but the Walther P22 might be a good choice, depending on how small the interchangable backstraps, etc. can go.
The only 22 pistol I've held onto (as opposed to selling them off) since first buying it has been the Ruger 22/45, and I can't see the 1911-clone grip as being ideal for your purpose.
Having said that, the old HK4 is still neat, in my book. One for sale: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127140252
You're likely on the right track - maybe an old Ruger (I, II, or III), High Standard, Colt Woodsman, etc. Or a new Ruger, Buckmark, Beretta Neos, etc. This thing is pretty neat: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=127347684
Heck, depending on your tastes, even the Ruger 10/22 Chargers (10/22 "pistol" with a bipod) might be handy for teaching small kids (thinking of the bipod and small size).
Finally, I don't know how adaptable it would be, as I've never changed out the pieces when handling one, but the Walther P22 might be a good choice, depending on how small the interchangable backstraps, etc. can go.
The only 22 pistol I've held onto (as opposed to selling them off) since first buying it has been the Ruger 22/45, and I can't see the 1911-clone grip as being ideal for your purpose.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Welcome to the forum cwm13...
It's my opinion a semi-auto handgun (or rifle) is a bad idea for a child, especially a 4 year old child. The possibility of an accident is just too great no matter how advanced the child is or how well you watch them.
A 4 year old is so small I really can't think of a gun that would fit their hand. I think it's a great idea you include him in your shooting but you are going to have to look very hard for a small handgun with a trigger light enough for him to pull.
As for rifles, there are a lot of youth rifles on the market but I fear all youth rifles might still be too large for your son. They are still worth a look and you might find something for your daughter too.
Marlin makes a Model 915YS youth rifle which is great.
Mossberg has their Model 801 Plinkster for youths.
Remington has a Model Five Youth but it's bigger and heavier than the others.
Savage has a Mark 1 Youth but it's also for older children.
Savage's Cub T is smaller than their Mark 1 ahd has a thumb hole stock.
The CZ 452 Scout is also very popular but costs more than the others.
I personally prefer the Mossberg or the Marlin but they are all good rifles. The price is right on the Mossberg too. (under $200) I'm told the CZ is the most accurate but I have no first hand knowledge of the CZ.
It's my opinion a semi-auto handgun (or rifle) is a bad idea for a child, especially a 4 year old child. The possibility of an accident is just too great no matter how advanced the child is or how well you watch them.
A 4 year old is so small I really can't think of a gun that would fit their hand. I think it's a great idea you include him in your shooting but you are going to have to look very hard for a small handgun with a trigger light enough for him to pull.
As for rifles, there are a lot of youth rifles on the market but I fear all youth rifles might still be too large for your son. They are still worth a look and you might find something for your daughter too.
Marlin makes a Model 915YS youth rifle which is great.
Mossberg has their Model 801 Plinkster for youths.
Remington has a Model Five Youth but it's bigger and heavier than the others.
Savage has a Mark 1 Youth but it's also for older children.
Savage's Cub T is smaller than their Mark 1 ahd has a thumb hole stock.
The CZ 452 Scout is also very popular but costs more than the others.
I personally prefer the Mossberg or the Marlin but they are all good rifles. The price is right on the Mossberg too. (under $200) I'm told the CZ is the most accurate but I have no first hand knowledge of the CZ.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Obviously, you must be extremely careful in allowing your young children to shoot. You simply do not load ANY firearm and hand it to a 4 year old and say "go for it!" Having said that, my kids have both been "shooting" handguns and carbines since they were three.
My solution to their requests has been to allow them to grip the pistol while sitting in my lap or kneeling on a table while I stand behind them, and then I place my hands on top of theirs to help handle the recoil and control the muzzle direction. Using that technique, my daughter shot both my Ruger Mk II and 1911 (in .45) at 3 years old. And she'd rip off whole magazines of .45, too! (Worked the same way with the AK, by the way.
)
The real gem, though, is the Ruger Bearcat. It is noticably smaller than the Single Six, and just about perfect for kids of that size. The single-action design is just about as safe as a single-shot, and there is still no recoil with the .22s. And if the noise still startles the little ones, .22 Shorts and CBs work just fine in a revolver.
You really do have to stay RIGHT on them. While a child can, and should, be expected to remember and be able to recite the safety rules, it is not reasonable or fair to expect them to put them into practice without any mistakes. So, the biggest part of your job is to be so in control of the situation that they really can't swing around on you or lose muzzle discipline.
Even though my daughter is now 7 and shoots my 629 with .44 Specials unassisted, I'm still RIGHT THERE, ready to correct any errors in judgement or lapses in her safety awareness.
Have fun, be safe, good luck!
-Sam
My solution to their requests has been to allow them to grip the pistol while sitting in my lap or kneeling on a table while I stand behind them, and then I place my hands on top of theirs to help handle the recoil and control the muzzle direction. Using that technique, my daughter shot both my Ruger Mk II and 1911 (in .45) at 3 years old. And she'd rip off whole magazines of .45, too! (Worked the same way with the AK, by the way.
)The real gem, though, is the Ruger Bearcat. It is noticably smaller than the Single Six, and just about perfect for kids of that size. The single-action design is just about as safe as a single-shot, and there is still no recoil with the .22s. And if the noise still startles the little ones, .22 Shorts and CBs work just fine in a revolver.
You really do have to stay RIGHT on them. While a child can, and should, be expected to remember and be able to recite the safety rules, it is not reasonable or fair to expect them to put them into practice without any mistakes. So, the biggest part of your job is to be so in control of the situation that they really can't swing around on you or lose muzzle discipline.
Even though my daughter is now 7 and shoots my 629 with .44 Specials unassisted, I'm still RIGHT THERE, ready to correct any errors in judgement or lapses in her safety awareness.
Have fun, be safe, good luck!
-Sam
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Oh, and on the subject of rifles, I can't recommend the Savage Cub T highly enough! After looking at almost all of the other micro-rifle trainers, the Cub was considerably better than most and WAAAY better than the low end models like the Cricket.
Give it a look!
-Sam
Give it a look!
-Sam
Thanks for the advise. I kneel down beside him and support the pistol as well as keep very close tabs on what is going on...he is 4. I have seen too many accident in my line of work by kids that are in homes with firearms that are not educated in safely handling them...and from improper storage. I love that my kids have taken a genuine interest in being outdoors with me, we fish, ride ATV's, and they love to sit in the blind with me. I feel it is my responsibility to teach them how to be safe and also to conserve our natural resources (especially with all those liberals trying to take our liberty)>
1KPerDay
Member
Very good advice, Sam.
woad_yurt
Member
I have one! I'm PM-ing you.
Funderb
Member
what's wrong with cricketts?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Their one good point is that they're cheap. Even as cheap as they are, they're hardly worth the price.
The action is annoying. Cocking the striker is done as a separate step from working the bolt. Some folks will say this is safer, but it isn't really. It is a continual source of "fumbling" with the rifle instead of learning a more standard bolt-action's manual of arms. Further, the INTERNAL parts of the bolt (including the main spring) are EXTERNAL and exposed to grit and damage.
Perhaps my biggest gripe is the lack of a feed ramp in the receiver. To load a round, you can't just place it into the action and close the bolt. You have to feed the cartridge into the chamber with your fingers -- through the tiny loading and ejection port. Fumble it and drop the round into the receiver and you'll have to flip the gun over, shake out the round, and try again.
If you look at a higher quality (and cost) rifle like the Savage or some of the others, their bolt cocks on closing like most "normal" bolt rifles. There's not separate cocking step. Also, they will have a real feed ramp so you can load a round without fuss. Just set it in the action and close the bolt.
I picked up a Cub-T (laminated wood thumb-hole stock) from Gander Mountain on sale for about $170. That's probably $60-$80 more expensive than a Cricket, but worth the cost, without question. The Cub is a fine rifle and I've put more rounds through it myself than my kids have! In fact, it's my go-to gun for groundhogs in the yard.
Also, the aperture sights that come on it are very nice (great for training), though mounted too low for a large adult to use easily. But the standard rimfire style dovetail scope mount is milled into the receiver. With a $30 Barska scope (that came with rings), I can hit those little steel spinners at 75 yds pretty easily with cheap ammo. And with match ammo it's given me 1.5" groups at 100 yds.
I've also been impressed with the Henry and Marlin micro-youth rifles, and the CZ stuff always gets great reviews. Just avoid the cricket. You get what you pay for...and no one wants THAT!
-Sam
The Lone Haranguer
Member
CZ 452 "Scout" for a kid's rifle.
Funderb
Member
meh, fair enough.
The one I shot as a kid seems to be nicer than they are now. That one was about ... well, grandpop used it.
there are a lot of options out there.. savage youth models are nice.
The one I shot as a kid seems to be nicer than they are now. That one was about ... well, grandpop used it.
there are a lot of options out there.. savage youth models are nice.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Second on the Bearcat
flipajig
Member
I started my son around 5 with dads help with a 10-22. daughter is 9 and is on her way in to the shooting world. both have shot my 9mm single six and 3030. let my son shoot my44 (with light loads) so IMO start with what you can
SAFELY !!!!!!
SAFELY !!!!!!
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