Kimber- Bad gun, bad reputation, bad luck?

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zammyman

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Having read a lot of reviews, both good and bad, I decided to look into Kimbers further. I noticed the Tacoma PD approved them for officer’s use (http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/review/Tacoma_ProCarry.htm), and even said they found a very low failure rate.
I know Kimber uses MIM parts, though I haven't seen more than two cases of their slides locks actually cracking and really haven't found any cases of the frames cracking. It seems the few cases of cracked frames could often be linked to hot loads, weakened slide return springs, or people using too soft of springs. I talked to a gun smith who kept insisting the 4" Kimbers use a 20LB return spring, after digging I found they are 22lbs.
And finally, the break in period seems to be part of the problem. I know a Springfield XD or Glock can be picked off the shelf without really being broken in, and may be expected to shoot fine. With the tolerances being what they are on so many 1911's, so very tight, they seem to be picky on lubes sometimes, especially when over or under lubricated.
When I first took my Kimber Pro Carry II out, I manually cycled the gun (not slamming it, of course) 300 times, then tore it down and cleaned/relubed it. After 200 rounds of FMJ at the range, it was firing fine and not jamming.
It seems Kimber has received back press recently, with a lot of people not liking the MIM pieces. I know the 1911 is certainly a more picky gun to make reliable than a Glock or Springfield XD, but it seems like the overall design itself is so standard, it would be hard for one particular company to have a really poorly made version, unless using bad materials or poor tolerances and workmanship.
When it all comes down to it, what do Dan Wesson, Wilson, etc, really have over Kimber? I know the difference in overall tolerances, but is there really a difference in reliability?
Other than the general fact every gun company will have a lemon here and there; are there any fundamental reliability problems really specific to Kimber?
 
MHO, FWIW,

I THINK, that when you have a product that costs $1800 or more, and a competitor comes in and crashes the whole market with a model that does pretty much the same thing for less than $700, all the guys who have been spending $1800 are going to find all kinds of reasons they were justified for spending the money in the first place.

I also think, that when an item floods the market, to the point they are very numerous, incidents of breakage are going to be more common, whether or not the actual rate of failure is actually higher.

I carry a Kimber Custom II, I bought it about 5 years ago, $630, NIB, I added Hogue wrap-around finger grips, and night sights, I dropped the full-length guide rod. This is AFTER I used many other guns for every day carry, 1911s and others. I will probably be buried with it. All other pistols I wanted to get eventually have faded in importance. I remember setting out to break it in, I have absolutely no idea when it became broken in, because I recall a grand total of two stovepipes, and I can't remember how long ago they were. It worked perfectly from day 1. It's not just the best 1911 I've owned, it's the best handgun I've fired, PERIOD.

If MIM parts are doomed to fail, all mine must be defective. No problems after 10k + rounds between .45 and my .22 kit. I have heard some of the MIM critics concede that if they are made with a weak flaw, they will fail early. If they don't, they probably won't.

I've fired Wilsons, Baers, and Nighthawks. I rented a Nighthawk at Impact that retails for $2700. I shot it, I liked it, but for pete's sake, I have absolutely no idea what makes it worth THREE TIMES the price of my Kimber. Remember Vincent Vega in Pulp Fiction: "That's the best milkshake I've ever tasted. But it ain't worth five dollars."

I care not at all for cosmetics. Finish quality does not concern me. I care only about function. If all an extra $2000 gets me is shiny innards, I ask why they need to be shiny in the first place. My Kimber will shoot 2" at 25 yards. If a more expensive 1911 will shoot 1" at 25, then they are BOTH better than I am.

ALL guns will break sooner or later. You just have to shoot it long enough. What's a bigger pain? Buying a $700 1911 and having it break eventually, or buying a $2000 1911 and having it break a LOT sooner than you wanted it to? Les Baer, Wilson, etc, have ALL had new guns sent back to the shop the first day. (A good friend of mine just got a Para that had been squeezed too tightly in a vise, probably when they installed the night sights, the whole slide was ruined.)

I think you understand Kimbers perfectly. In the mid 90s, they shattered the idea that to get a reliable, tight-shooting 1911 with a great trigger and hand-fitted slide/frame fit, you had to spend over $1000. Since then, the competitors have followed suit, producing many pistols probably just as good, in the same price range. The 1911 is more popular than ever. If I had just bought a high-end custom gun right before that, I'd scoff too. It's your money, buy whatever you want, carry whatever you trust, but the law of diminishing returns kicks in somewhere between $700 and $2700. (I think in the LOW range.) Even when I'm wealthy, I don't see myself ever spending that much, and getting a better pistol than the one I already have.
 
mljdeckard,

Excellent post, I wish I would have written it. I feel the same way about my Kimber Classic Custom, which I paid $625.00 for way back in the day when they first came out. Mine has been stellar, accurate, reliable, it slides, glides, snicks, and clicks as good as, and in most cases, better than anything else I have had the pleasure of handling. I have owned many 1911's in the past 30 years, but this Kimber has remained.

Mine has all the original MIM parts and I can detect no appreciable wear after thousands and thousands of rounds. Ever heard of Sturm Ruger? They pioneered investment casting. Ruger frames are legendary for their strength, and they're cast, not forged. I see it this way; Kimber found ways to lower cost (MIM for example) and concentrate on precision fit to deliver a competitive product. Ruger did the same. Now a lot of manufacturers are following suite.
 
What's MIM?

I fired a Kimber 1911 and loved it however I cannot justify spending a lot of money for a gun only to have to "break it in."
 
because if someone doesn't know what metal injection molding is, that wouldn't mean anything to them.
 
I can only state that I owned only one Kimber. I never had any malfunction or breakage. Fit and finish seemed on par with all the big name pistols. It was not a picky eater.

Would I buy another, yes, I would if I felt the need for one. I did sell it but not because it was Kimber or I had problems with it but because I sold off all the alloy framed pistols I owned. I am a (stainless) steel guy.
 
There should probably be a statute of limitations on reports of horrible customer service or shattering parts. I had both with Kimber but it was years ago and I would concede that the frequency of the belly-aching seems to have settled down.

My early Ultra CDP II had both FPB and ambi-safety parts failures.

My Eclipse II has been trouble free apart from a gimped insert on the rear night sight.

On a personal level, if something happens to your own self - zero degrees of separation, first person sort of thing, internet anecdotes and the fact that the next thousand people didn't have it happen won't mean much.

As such I wouldn't carry a Kimber that hasn't had the type II parts removed. You can see something similar in the revolver section regarding S&W integral locks. It's a possible failure point that some simply won't live with regardless of the vanishingly small odds of it acting up at an inopportune time.

Whether S&W has beefed up the spring or Kimber has tightened up on the FPB QC won't matter to anyone who's already been snake-bit.

Some folks won't trust a revolver with a integral lock unless it's been disabled and I won't trust a 1911 derivitive with an intact Swartz safety. The odds of you getting a nasty Kimber are slim the odds of it having a Swartz-related malf is "slim multiplied by real slim". If it happens you should buy a powerball ticket immediately.
 
I know of very few machines that do not need a breakin period. Maybe plastic guns don't. I do know that Kimber and the other high end gun manufacturers of 1911s maintain a very close tolerence fit.

When I was breaking in my Kimber UCC II, I compared it to my custom Colt full sized 1911 and the fit on the Kimber was much tighter. During the 300 rounds I had 5 minor failures (three stove pipes). Two failures (failure to go to battery) was a powder that I was using. It was too dirty and fouled the chamber. I have sense fired another 700+ rounds without any failures. The dang 3" barrel is as accurate as my Colt 5" custom at 25 yards...Can't ask anything more then that...
 
"Metal injection molding" fairly self -explanatory. Doesn't take a whole lot of imagination.
Right, because giving people more information and places to go to actually learn about the process is such a bad thing.

What's the problem here?
 
I now own three Kimbers, one in each size. One steel frame [ gold match] , one alloy frame, [ pro shadow] and one ss frame [ eclipse ultra]. I have had a total of five failures total between all three.Two known to be my fault. I have never owned one of the more expensive brands, though I seriously considered it one time, I could never bring myself to spend that amount of money when I was more than happy with Kimber.
I have never had any parts breakage with the originals that are still in place.
 
I have 5 Kimbers now and I've only experienced minor issues with my Pro Carry II model. Sent it back and it now shoots perfectly.
 
Of all the complaints I have read about Kimber 1911's, the ONE complaint I NEVER see is about their accuracy. They DO make pretty darn accurate 1911's.

The only Kimber I have bought, and will ever buy, required me to do the following to get her to run:

1: reshape and tension the extractor.

Mine consistently FAILED to feed or fully go into battery until I fixed the extractor.

2: replace the mag release.

My mag release had excess metal that would catch and bind the magazine in the frame from time to time which required me to pull the mag out of the frame.

3: Get rid of the full length guide rod.

My full length guide rod had a gouge in it where something was rubbing against it during cycling. What it was, I don't know because I simply replaced it with a GI plug.

Now, to their credit, my Kimber IS an accurate 1911, more so than my springer AND once I corrected the issues, it has fired over 3k rounds with ZERO stoppages whatsover and I would trust it with my life. I bought it for competition but now use a STI Spartan for matches which was cheaper, is as accurate, and has had ZERO stoppages out of the box.

The Kimber is now a house gun and will be used for night matches only.
 
JoeSlomo strikes a chord.

My problem child Kimber was also replaced with an STI that I've been obscenely happy with - in my case a VIP from Dawson.

The biggest difference is that, back when my experience was current, Kimber basically foisted all their problems off on the user.

"You're limp wristing it.
Run another 500 rounds through it.
Try different type of ammo - several hundred rounds each.
We'll sell you new recoil springs 'cause our break-in demands exceed the service life of the wear parts.
Buy some Wilson mags - ours aren't intended to work. (this was actually their dealer; not Kimber CS)
It must be you 'cause our fpb never screws up - never!
Whaa. whaa. And whaa."

After that, the customer service from Dawson Precision / STI was a revelation. The only gimp I had was .40S&W not feeding from a .45ACP mag they sent me (duh). They were ready to send a pick-up tag and turn the world upside down. Whoa, says I, it's only the mag - send me a new mag. Still, it was impressive - never heard the words "break in" or "limp wrist" or "what are you shooting in it". Never. Once. Was a malf my problem.

And it shot better too. Although as JoeSlomo notes, the Kimber was probably one of the most accurate 3" barreled single shot 1911s I ever owned.

Honesty would compel me to note that the Kimber was prettier than the STI - there may be specific model exceptions but, generally, one doesn't buy STI for looks.
 
I have two Kimbers, a full size stainless custom and a compact custom. I can't say enough good things. They have great triggers, are very reliable, and very accurate. The compact is my full size carry gun: I trust it with my life.
 
Trusting a Pistol with one's life says volumes

A Kimber FIRES everytime. Aiming is YOUR job. A well-aimed Kimber ends all further actions. Simple, yet effective: how simple. cliffy
 
Kimber can't be in business if all it does is sell lemons.

However, having said that, of the set of Kimbers I've handled, which is about 5, only one of them was reliable and it required a lot of work from the owner to get it working.

I have no doubt that if a bullet is loaded the Kimber will fire everytime you pull the trigger. What I doubt is whether, after firing said round, it will load another round out of the mag successfully. Obviously, there are plenty of owners who love their Kimbers and Kimber is still in business, this is simply my personal experience with a limited set.

Given all that, I would not hesitate to pick up a Kimber if I found a good deal on one.
 
3 Kimbers that I have purchased

UCII External Extractor ~ What A horribly unreliable gun, words can n ot describe how bad it was. Sold.

Warrior ~ Much better than the UCII (not saying much really) but for a $1000 gun it was a real disappointment in the both the finish area as well as the reliability.

Ultra Raptor II ~ Great little gun, has somewhat restored my faith in Kimber.

BTW I 2nd the STI vote.
 
I bought and due to economic issues sold a Kimber Ultra CDP a few years back.

It worked a thousand times better than my finicky colt defender, and shot as well as my full size USP .45

It was a more expensive model, and did everything I asked of it.

Mark me down as a happy former owner.
 
I know of very few machines that do not need a breakin period.

Yeah, but most of them (from lawnmowers to cars) will still run from the get-go. "Break-in" for most machines have more to do with how long they will run as opposed to if they will run at all. High dollar pistols that won't run "out-of-the-box" before the obligatory "break-in" ,in my mind ,are pistols that need excuses for subpar performance. And, it's not just plastic pistols that are good to go after unwrapping them. Metal pistols from Beretta, SIG and Smith&Wesson will almost always be 100% reliable without needing a pat on the arse to get going.
 
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