Kind of Conforting...

[Sheldon J]

On Sunday's I'm one of the sound tech guys at church, many times I have told the Pastor when he forgets to shut of his mike "don't worry I've got your back" (helps keep his chit chat out of the sound system). Several years back I also got on the board years ago so I could get permission to CC there..



Today my daughter on leave from the army headed over to the county offices to renew her CCW and bumped into our pastor and his oldest son there. Bumped into them again while she was over getting her fingerprints.



So curious I asked him what he was up to. He related how he had gotten a gift for Christmas from his son and were here to "take care of it". thinking there are a very finite amount reasons that could cover, so I said,"Oh what did you get" some what reluctantly he answered that his son had given him a 9MM, a Glock like he had when he was a Chaplin for the police force, and needed to get it registered.



Me I go COOL and through our conversation I slide back my coat to show him the HK that is my constant companion, spare mags, n TLR-2. More chit chat and I tell him "when I say at church I have your back at church, I mean I really have your back." to wich he replies "I've known that for some time, and actually find it kind of comforting".



Only down side is he retires in a few months, now I have to break in a new pastor.....

 

[Messenger Guard]

A few years back a guy with a misplaced grudge here in Knoxville entered a church and starting shooting. My history professor from college helped disarm him but only after he shot a few and I think he killed one. You can never be too safe. Gun free zones are only gun free until someone decides to bring a gun.

 

[Ledgehammer]

son had given him a 9MM, a Glock like he had when he was a Chaplin for the police force, and needed to get it registered.

I didn't think you actually registered weapons. I'm in Florida and we don't here, but I'm not familiar with other states. At least you know he's not anti-gun.

 

[Beerme]

yeah we do in michigan

 

[Onward Allusion]

HK that is my constant companion, spare mags, n TLR-2

Which HK? with a TLR-2? EDC? CC? Nice!

 

[Sheldon J]

USP .45 full size strong side pancake, ITAC (kyrodex) dual mag pouch, TLR-2 for the rail with a belt quick disconnect can be snapped in place very fast I practice that way, has the laser set up to parallel the HK's bore, so the dot is always 1.75 inches bellow the .45 centerline, that way you never have to worry about convergence issues at range.

 

[xcgates]

Ahh, pastors and their mikes, can be quite amusing, can't they? My old pastor had a habit of leaving his on over the week, to the point we would check the battery before each service, because otherwise it would need replacement in the middle of the service. Without fail.

 

[ServiceSoon]

I didn't think you actually registered weapons. I'm in Florida and we don't here, but I'm not familiar with other states. At least you know he's not anti-gun.

Michigan has "safety inspections" for pistols.

 

[BearAZ737]

That's awesome! I sometimes have to tell people my L.E. father carries in church too because you never know and they always look shocked..

 

[AKPastor]

I encourage the men & women in my church to exercise their 2A rights and to be safe and practice often. They know I carry at church and they are encouraged to do so. I don't preach sermons on it or anything, but since AK allows concealed carry for anyone who can legally own a handgun - I think we need to exercise that right and be prepared.

 

[pioneer461]

That's awesome! I sometimes have to tell people my L.E. father carries in church too because you never know and they always look shocked..

Many churches are becoming aware they are victim rich environments. A colleague of mine has attended seminars in Houston Texas, where he learned to set up armed security for his church. His pastor has made him the Security Minister and he recruited CCW holders and police officers (+ retired LEOs) to help provide security services. Very much like the church in Colorado a couple of years ago where a security volunteer shot an active shooter in the church.

The Lord is our Shepherd and the congregation is His flock. Sometimes He needs the help of sheep dogs. ​

​

 

[highorder]

Michigan has "safety inspections" for pistols.

Still? I thought that went out the window, and now you just need to send in the green card. Do you still have to present a handgun for [strike]inspection[/strike] serial number registration in Michigan?

 

[Sam1911]

The Lord is our Shepherd and the congregation is His flock. Sometimes He needs the help of sheep dogs.

Normally, I say this:

The concept of knighting yourself a "sheepdog" is a dangerous error. It leads "good" guys to overstep their ability, their capacity, their training, and their authority with potentially disastrous results. Your sidearm is there to protect you and your loved ones in the moment of most dire need. It is not a badge giving you the power to fight crime, nor a magic talisman giving you the insight to avoid potentially horrible mistakes of judgment when entering complex and dangerous criminal scenarios. It also does not in any way place you under the protection/indemnification of a law enforcement agency in the event that your good-will action goes awry.

It exists simply to keep you alive in that critical moment when your life is directly threatened.

However, if churches really are stepping up to provide training, official policies, responsibilities, and duties for the guards, and some mechanism by which they indemnify those guards against losses sustained in civil court -- as well as establishing a procedure for assisting those agents in any criminal proceedings their "official" actions (rightly or wrongly) may land them in, then that may be a very good thing.

So, please share what your church does to protect those it asks -- or allows knowingly -- to watch over the flock.

 

[Beerme]

Michigan has "safety inspections" for pistols.

not anymore we dont, we just take them the bottom two coppies of our RI-60's or purchase permits
no inspection anymore.
the safety inspection was the only thing we had to camouflage it from being a registration, now it is clear what it is.

 

[SSN Vet]

However, if churches really are stepping up to provide training, official policies, responsibilities, and duties for the guards, and some mechanism by which they indemnify those guards against losses sustained in civil court -- as well as establishing a procedure for assisting those agents in any criminal proceedings their "official" actions (rightly or wrongly) may land them in, then that may be a very good thing.

I personally know of only one church that has taken security serious enough to organize a security team, with a written policy. And that policy simply states that the laws of the state are the sole guide for the use of any kind of force, and that any team member or congregant that choses to do so, is acting as an individual and not on behalf of the church.

What this really says to me is that (1) they are asking members of the congregation to join a security team and (2) making sure their assets are covered and they will incur no liability if TSHTF.

So, please share what your church does to protect those it asks -- or allows knowingly -- to watch over the flock.

This is a source of some significant heartburn for me personally at the church I attend.

I think it takes a very independent minded church leadership to "go there" when it comes to church security.

 

[Sam1911]

SSN_Vet,

This is exactly my point, such as it is. Like with a great many other (less life-altering) issues, the churches may be encouraging a "good neighbor" and "do unto others" mindset among the congregation. That may work o.k. when organizing a pot-luck dinner (though there's always the [strike]chance [/strike] likelihood that you'll end up with sixteen string-bean casseroles and no roast beef), but it really isn't a very safe -- and I'd even say ethical -- way of dealing with congregants acting as armed guards.

There is always the chance that, if a pcp-addled junkie armed with a machete barges in during communion, Deacon Jones will put him down with one carefully placed shot and will be lauded by the congregation, cheered by the community, and kissed on both cheeks by the Commissioner of Police.

But almost every other possible armed altercation has a much less clear, clean, and rosy outcome. And what then? Does the church empty it's coffers to fight a civil suit from the poor, unfortunate attacker's family? Does the church somehow become a party to the criminal case when some witnesses say the "attacker" had turned to leave before he was shot, that he had a butter knife, not a machete, that he said "I'm gonna BLESS you," not "I'm gonna KILL you," -- and District Attorney does not agree that Deacon Jones' act of lethal force was justified?

Does the church even have some mechanism by which its own congregants agree not to sue Deacon Jones for the errant shot that passed through (or, more likely, by the attacker) and tore through Miss Mable in her wheelchair ... or the nursery beyond?

It's not like any of these things are better if Deacon Jones was just acting to save his own hide, but the (perceived or expressed) "duty" to act in some official capacity may spur someone to act far beyond what a reasonable person should do -- and certainly opens up the pastor, BOD, and church itself to a world of trouble.

It is a "tread cautiously" kind of thing. I don't think I'd want to accept that charge, if asked.

 

[Unistat]

not anymore we dont, we just take them the bottom two coppies of our RI-60's or purchase permits
no inspection anymore.
the safety inspection was the only thing we had to camouflage it from being a registration, now it is clear what it is.

And now that we have an all Republican controlled govrernment, I would like to see this go away.

Also the Pistol Purchase Permit should be removed, although it doesn't affect me anymore since I have a CPL.

Also the Secretary of State should be in charge of permits, not the county gun boards, since we are Shall issue now.

Also PFZs. Ridiculous and innefective.

What else? Oh yeah, allow suppressors.