Kitchen knives for SD???
- Thread starter Brian Williams
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waterhouse
Member
I've got several nice knife sets that were given to me as gifts, but I tend to use one 8" chef's knife (wusthof) for just about everything in the kitchen.
While all of them would be suitable weapons in a time of need, unless I am going into the kitchen at 2 a.m. in my boxers there is always a gun that is much closer than any of the kitchen knives.
While all of them would be suitable weapons in a time of need, unless I am going into the kitchen at 2 a.m. in my boxers there is always a gun that is much closer than any of the kitchen knives.
Joe Demko
Member
Got a big Chicago Cutlery chef's knife that could do serious harm. The Cold Steel scalping knife, Old Hickory butcher knives, or Gutmann boning knife would all make very good weapons. The scalping knife, in particlular, would be an excellent tool for mayhem as the design of the blade acts a a kind of guard to prevent your hand running up the blade on a forceful thrust.
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My daily-use knives is a set of Kershaw Shun knives along with a mishmash of Wustoffs -all kept to hair-popping readiness. I've got a Chinese knife (cleaver) that would do messy damage if it ever chopped anything other than vegetables. I even purchased a commercial 16" sharpening steel just in case I needed to bash anything with it. (My handforged Japanese knives all sit in their boxes far away from the wife, just in case she decides knife=screwdriver)
Probably the only knives I wouldn't use for SD are my ceramic knives which are only good for slicing tomatos.
Probably the only knives I wouldn't use for SD are my ceramic knives which are only good for slicing tomatos.
gunsnmoses
Member
Spyderco makes a great kitchen knife which is just wicked sharp. It would do in a pinch, but I'd worry about snapping the blade since it's on the thin side
sm
member
Old Hickory.
Patrick_Henry
Member
I've heard stories before of kitchen knives being used when there was nothing else, but why not just make sure there was something else?
Pax Jordana
Member
circumstance (monetary, have to move quick, legality).
There have been stories, to paraphrase the bard of THR, of poor folks, battered wives, sons and daughters away at college, with limited resources in terms of what's permitted by law and what's feasible in terms of finance.
Where I went to college, guns were an instant out and knives/clubs/etc were still enough to get you in hot water. But you were allowed eating utensils.. well for a dollar at the local goodwill you could get yourself a fine old steak knife, and that maglite's just cos campus safety told us we'd be safer carrying a light around.
Making sure is only making as sure as you can make.. well that's not very quotable but you get the idea.
I've got these that I ended up with after my father passed away, but they're alot older looking than these are and they have some patina on them. The knife I seem to use out of these is the boning knife as it always seems like it's about the right size.
Old Hickory Knife Set
O.H. Boning Knife
http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?PriceEnd=&order=Default&CatalogName=&range=381&list=10&Feature=&Cat=67&SearchText=&Mode=Cat&Brand=&PriceStart=&SKU=OH705
Then we've got some cheap Japanese knife set with black plastic handles that aren't very good.
I don't know what brand they are.
Old Hickory Knife Set
O.H. Boning Knife
http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?PriceEnd=&order=Default&CatalogName=&range=381&list=10&Feature=&Cat=67&SearchText=&Mode=Cat&Brand=&PriceStart=&SKU=OH705
Then we've got some cheap Japanese knife set with black plastic handles that aren't very good.
I don't know what brand they are.
Why not just get a fighting knife?
Kitchen knives are the primary type of knife produced all over the world.
There is a large range of designs available to allow selection based on dual use for SD. Those designs have survived the test of time through centuries of use so any design chosen will not be some flash in the pan brain child of someone who spends time thinking about instead of using knives.
They can still be had with good carbon steel for next to nothing.
There is intense competition between manufacturers of kitchen cutlery to produce quality products that would crush the "tactical" knife market by comparison. This results in durable, economical, ergonomic, tough products available all over the world.
That said, most kitchen knife grips are not designed for fighting. A little modification with a round file and a dremil will do wonders for that.
Kitchen knives are the primary type of knife produced all over the world.
There is a large range of designs available to allow selection based on dual use for SD. Those designs have survived the test of time through centuries of use so any design chosen will not be some flash in the pan brain child of someone who spends time thinking about instead of using knives.
They can still be had with good carbon steel for next to nothing.
There is intense competition between manufacturers of kitchen cutlery to produce quality products that would crush the "tactical" knife market by comparison. This results in durable, economical, ergonomic, tough products available all over the world.
That said, most kitchen knife grips are not designed for fighting. A little modification with a round file and a dremil will do wonders for that.
I imagine that more people are killed in this country by kitchen and steak knives than all the "tactical" knives put together.
You think the fur trappers of the Rocky Mtns. carried a special knife just for social uses? I'll bet most just used their trusty Russell "Green River" skinners when things got nasty and there was no time to reload "Old Betsy."
The Old Hickory "Pigsticker" is a good one. But it's double-edged, so it wouldn't pass for a kitchen knife very readily. Sharpens up fearsomely, but it has no guard, so thumb-capping or palm-cupping are in order.
There's an old expression, "any weapon will do, if you will do."
You think the fur trappers of the Rocky Mtns. carried a special knife just for social uses? I'll bet most just used their trusty Russell "Green River" skinners when things got nasty and there was no time to reload "Old Betsy."
The Old Hickory "Pigsticker" is a good one. But it's double-edged, so it wouldn't pass for a kitchen knife very readily. Sharpens up fearsomely, but it has no guard, so thumb-capping or palm-cupping are in order.
There's an old expression, "any weapon will do, if you will do."
TimboKhan
Member
If I had to, I guess I could use my kitchen knives, but my problem is that I use an ulu for about everything in the kitchen, and my bread knife isn't going to get it done. So, having actually had this thought before, I have a old Navy fighting knife in my knife drawer. Also, I have a .357 in the cabinet over the sink. I figured it out the other day, and if I fought my way through every gun I have in the house loaded and specifically positioned for HD, I would expend close to 100 rounds, lol...
In Vegas one time a suspect in a robbery jumped a back fence and ran into the back door of a house. The woman of the house was at home, in the kitchen cooking. The suspect (who was actually unarmed) told the woman he had a gun in his pocket, and took her hostage.
Hearing an unfamiliar voice, the husband came into the kitchen, and was taken hostage as well. In both cases, these people were taken completely off guard. Either one of them, or both, could probably have grabed a knife and sliced him up before he could have even begun to draw his imaginary gun.
There's a reason that police won't let you go into your kitchen if they enter your home. Kitchens are chock full of pointy, nasty, and easily accessible stuff.
Back to that home invasion. He then asked the couple if there was anyone else in the house, and they told him that thier two kids were upstairs. So the father, suspect, and mother started to head up the stairs, in that order.
The mother saw the suspect's mistake and took off out the front door, and flagged down one of the police who were canvasing the area.
At the top of the stairs, the suspect realized that the woman was gone, and ran back down the stairs. The father quickly lowered his two kids out the window to the police.
Downstairs, the robber realized that the Woman was gone, and police now had him cornered. He ran back upstairs, where he found that he had only one hostage left. He asked the father where the kids were, and the guy told him. Furious, the suspect ran to the window to see, at which point the man ran downstairs and out of the house. The would-be hostage taker was arrested without any injuries.
Point being, unless you're mental, you're not going to pack head while doing dishes on a Tuesday afternoon, and most folks don't lock thier doors during the day. While this is about as likey as getting hit by lightening for most of us, it's good to know that your kitchen holds a lot of nasty suprises for a home invader.
Hearing an unfamiliar voice, the husband came into the kitchen, and was taken hostage as well. In both cases, these people were taken completely off guard. Either one of them, or both, could probably have grabed a knife and sliced him up before he could have even begun to draw his imaginary gun.
There's a reason that police won't let you go into your kitchen if they enter your home. Kitchens are chock full of pointy, nasty, and easily accessible stuff.
Back to that home invasion. He then asked the couple if there was anyone else in the house, and they told him that thier two kids were upstairs. So the father, suspect, and mother started to head up the stairs, in that order.
The mother saw the suspect's mistake and took off out the front door, and flagged down one of the police who were canvasing the area.
At the top of the stairs, the suspect realized that the woman was gone, and ran back down the stairs. The father quickly lowered his two kids out the window to the police.
Downstairs, the robber realized that the Woman was gone, and police now had him cornered. He ran back upstairs, where he found that he had only one hostage left. He asked the father where the kids were, and the guy told him. Furious, the suspect ran to the window to see, at which point the man ran downstairs and out of the house. The would-be hostage taker was arrested without any injuries.
Point being, unless you're mental, you're not going to pack head while doing dishes on a Tuesday afternoon, and most folks don't lock thier doors during the day. While this is about as likey as getting hit by lightening for most of us, it's good to know that your kitchen holds a lot of nasty suprises for a home invader.
I was under the impression that we were just talking about weapons of opportunity only under specific conditions. That being said though I have seen teenager girls and young women throw steak knives and kitchen knives in their purses and I've seen quite a few homeless people with them as well, so they do make it beyond the realm of the kitchen.
Most guys seem to go to hunting and folding knives when they need a knife, most of the women I've seen tend to grab some kitchen knife. Maybe it's because that's what they're comfortable using since many women like cooking and some women see the kitchen as their domain.
I heard this thing once that most women get stabbed in the bedroom during domestic arguments that turn deadly and that most men tend to get stabbed in the kitchen. Now I've never seen any evidence to back that up, but it's something to think about.
Most guys seem to go to hunting and folding knives when they need a knife, most of the women I've seen tend to grab some kitchen knife. Maybe it's because that's what they're comfortable using since many women like cooking and some women see the kitchen as their domain.
I heard this thing once that most women get stabbed in the bedroom during domestic arguments that turn deadly and that most men tend to get stabbed in the kitchen. Now I've never seen any evidence to back that up, but it's something to think about.
mercop
Member.
Funny you ask. We are actually getting ready to offer what we will call the Confident Traveler System that will be comprised of two Victorinox Paring Knives and three custom kydex sheaths along with a mercharness and Tactical Tether.
This is for people who travel and want to carry a decent fixed blade they can afford to loose.
Steak knives have killed more people in the hood than any other edged weapon.
This is for people who travel and want to carry a decent fixed blade they can afford to loose.
Steak knives have killed more people in the hood than any other edged weapon.
amper
Member
Culinary knives and fighting knives have requirements that are pretty much mutually exclusive. I wouldn't ever think about relying on any proper kitchen knife for self-defense, just as I wouldn't ever think of relying on any proper combat or wilderness utility knife as a primary kitchen tool. Of course, when in need, just about anything can be used as a makeshift weapon or tool.
In many overseas locations people use kitchen cutlery for everyday carry. A typical rig is a 4-6 inch blade wrapped in heavy paper and stuck in the waistband.
Last I checked, these will cut just as well as a $500 special Ninja combat knife at least for the first few slashes.
Last I checked, these will cut just as well as a $500 special Ninja combat knife at least for the first few slashes.
cracked butt
Member
Meat cleaver= mini battle axe 
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Formidable
A kitchen knife can certainly be formidable, but it is well to have at least a basic concept of how to hold it so you don't hurt yourself.
Stabbing (thrusting) with a knife having no guard to keep the fingers from sliding up the blade (get that picture, now savor it) is not a particularly fun idea.
There is a grip that allows a slashing and/or stabbing attack and yet keeps the knife from sliding through your hand.
I've never tried to describe it verbally, but . . .
Grasp the knife as though to do an overhand stab with it (think "Psycho" the movie) but with these changes: 1) the cutting edge should be "outward" or "upward" rather than downward/inward, and 2) your thumb should be firmly clamped over the butt (pommel) of the knife.
In the case of, say, a boning knife (which has a blade not wider than the handle and has no guard), this would give you five or six inches of sharp, pointed steel sticking out "below" your fist, such that if your thumb's knuckle is pointed inward (palm down), the blade sticks out to your strong side, with the cutting edge forward.
Look at that for a bit, and the attack strokes become evident.
You should be able to mount a convincing defense without slicing your own hand.
I first saw this grip in a military manual with a title like "Basic Knife Fighting" or some such.
It's not the only grip, but if you have to defend with a plain (guard-less) knife without a special handle, it is better than some others.
Anyway.
Kitchen knives? I have some nasty cutlery in my kitchen.
I also have a Schrade 6-inch clip point hunting knife in the kitchen -- the one with the dark green rubber handle -- and if I got to choose, it would be my first grab. Failing that, there's a handsome selection of nastiness in my knife block. Swibo, swept curve butcher/carving knife, with a 14-inch, sharply pointed blade. Darn thing is a short sword -- a scimitar -- already!
A kitchen knife can certainly be formidable, but it is well to have at least a basic concept of how to hold it so you don't hurt yourself.
Stabbing (thrusting) with a knife having no guard to keep the fingers from sliding up the blade (get that picture, now savor it) is not a particularly fun idea.
There is a grip that allows a slashing and/or stabbing attack and yet keeps the knife from sliding through your hand.
I've never tried to describe it verbally, but . . .
Grasp the knife as though to do an overhand stab with it (think "Psycho" the movie) but with these changes: 1) the cutting edge should be "outward" or "upward" rather than downward/inward, and 2) your thumb should be firmly clamped over the butt (pommel) of the knife.
In the case of, say, a boning knife (which has a blade not wider than the handle and has no guard), this would give you five or six inches of sharp, pointed steel sticking out "below" your fist, such that if your thumb's knuckle is pointed inward (palm down), the blade sticks out to your strong side, with the cutting edge forward.
Look at that for a bit, and the attack strokes become evident.
You should be able to mount a convincing defense without slicing your own hand.
I first saw this grip in a military manual with a title like "Basic Knife Fighting" or some such.
It's not the only grip, but if you have to defend with a plain (guard-less) knife without a special handle, it is better than some others.
Anyway.
Kitchen knives? I have some nasty cutlery in my kitchen.
I also have a Schrade 6-inch clip point hunting knife in the kitchen -- the one with the dark green rubber handle -- and if I got to choose, it would be my first grab. Failing that, there's a handsome selection of nastiness in my knife block. Swibo, swept curve butcher/carving knife, with a 14-inch, sharply pointed blade. Darn thing is a short sword -- a scimitar -- already!
I don't understand how this is the case. Could you explain it to me?
Looking at this knife as an example, how is it deficient when compared to the vast majority of "fighting" knives?
"Good" kitchen knives are well balanced (usually just within an inch or two of the guard), have full tang construction, are beveled to excel at cutting and/or chopping, usually have the tip in line with the grip, are designed to keep the fingers off the blade as well as being comfortable to use.
Good fighting knives have much the same properties, with the possible addition of a guard to protect somewhat from another knife, as good kitchen knives. Being someone who cooks and who is also a student of H2H, knife and stick I wouldn't feel any more at a loss with that Wustof in my hand than I would with one of my custom Kim Breed Bowies.
Joe Demko
Member
Please list the requirements of each so that I can see how being one would preclude it being the other because I've thought about it on my own and I don't agree. Please confine the discussion to good quality kitchen knives and good quality fighting knives. I'm not interested in how dollar tree ginsu knives compare to flea market fighting knives.
To be totally honest, I think a lot of very pricey fighting knives have some very unnecessary features that may be nice, but add nothing to the knife's ability to slice meat.
My grandmother bought us some very nice carbon steel knives for our kitchen, and I have to say that every time I use them it sends a shiver up my spine. I've never had a tactical knfe that sharp. Ever. I could filet the bicep right off of your arm with little effort. And the pommel is steel as well, so in a pich I could brain you with that as well.
True, the blade is thinner, but not flimsy, and I've got a whole block of them.
My grandmother bought us some very nice carbon steel knives for our kitchen, and I have to say that every time I use them it sends a shiver up my spine. I've never had a tactical knfe that sharp. Ever. I could filet the bicep right off of your arm with little effort. And the pommel is steel as well, so in a pich I could brain you with that as well.
True, the blade is thinner, but not flimsy, and I've got a whole block of them.
cracked butt
Member
You should try a Spyderco Ronin (fixed blade) or Yojimbo (folding version of the Ronin) (both are discontinued
) The blades penetrate and cut flesh with just about no resistance. The blades are more or less a straight razor with a needle-like point that tapers up to a thick spine.http://www.martialbladeconcepts.com/ronin.htm
mercop
Member.
Many kitchen knives are used for cutting meat right? Humans are meat right? Ever see what a serrated steak knife that does not even have a point will do to human flesh? They are preferred by some folks because you can carry them without getting poked, they are good for cutting people as well as for popping locks. Kinda of a Felonious Multi-Tool.
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