Knife collectors: ID help with Eagle head Knife

[trueblue1776]

Here is a knife that has been in my family for at least 40 years, no idea where it came from. Grandfather had it in his barn, I found it when I was young and he had been dead for some time.

Handle material is a white metal (Alum, Mag, Zinc?), which is very strange, probably puts the age at 50-60 years old max.

Handle is a very Nordic looking eagle head with antler inserts, with some type of eagle medallion at base of blade.

Blade and part of sheath have been plated with chrome like finish and is starting to flake off in places. Blade is not (never) sharp but comes to a needle point. Stamp at base of blade is a blacksmith with hammer overhead, lettering reading "E. PACK & SOHNE" "SOLINGEN"

Any Ideas? Thanks for help.

It is not a K98 bayonet, or any model bayonet as it has no mounts.

 

[trueblue1776]

Further research (google) points to early Third Reich, but I still can't find anything conclusive.

 

[Joe Demko]

I can't tell without being able to look at the knife closely, but I think you have a novelty knife. Given the time frame and the condition of the cast zinc parts, I'm guessing the blade is stainless as it is free of patina. That makes pre-WWII very unlikely. One doesn't see a lot of carbon blades stored in barns that have that shine.
I distinctly remember seeing knives pretty much like this sold mail-order from the backs of comic books and men's magazines in the 60's and 70's. I suspect that if you examine things a little more closely, you'll find the "stag" handles are plastic.

Re-read and this time the part about the chrome flaking registered on my dim little brain. This does make it a bit more possible that you have something older, but I'm still guessing you have a novelty knife produced in germany sometime in the early 60's.

 

[trueblue1776]

Due to the sharpness of the legitimate Third Reich bayonet and sword maker emblem, I really do not think it is fake.

Further research shows aluminum was used in police dress bayonets, which are unslotted like mine. The Nazi emblem is missing from the center of the elk horn grip, but the mounting holes remain.

I have found nearly identical dress bayonets dated 1935-38, though none have the eagle medallion on base of the blade.

The elk horn handles are unmistakably genuine.

My grandfather did participate in the 1943 world tour.

 

[Joe Demko]

Your pics don't show the mark you are talking about; but even so, be aware that the same companies that made stuff for the Nazis continued churning out the same stuff after the war for the novelty market. As for the handles, how do you know that it is specifically "elk horn?"
Look, probably the best thing for you to do is take this to a legitimate authority on Nazi edged weapons. There are boatloads of fakes and reproductions out there and they aren't necessarily easy to tell apart.

 

[trueblue1776]

be aware that the same companies that made stuff for the Nazis continued churning out the same stuff after the war for the novelty market.

Novelty market? In post WWII Europe? Come on. Was that before or after the Marshal plan?

I found the knife with a 1903 bayonet and a type of SMLE bayonet, if that gives any authenticity to the claim.

Heres the stamp on the blade. Sorry about the wallyworld camera.

 

[Joe Demko]

Novelty market? In post WWII Europe?

Post-WWII USA. Take it to someone who specializes in this stuff and pay him for his opinion. I've given you my best guess based on over 30 years of knife collecting. Clearly, what I'm telling you is something you don't want to hear.

 

[auschip]

If it's real I would say it was a Cutdown Weimar Police Clamshell Bayonet, but I haven't seen those marked by Pack (mainly Eickhorn from my limited experience). However, this info was just from using my google-fu, so I am by no means an expert.

These were counterfeited after the war, so it would be best to take it to an expert. Who could tell you if the mark matched known marks by Pack, as well as judge the condition of the blade itself.

 

[Soap]

It looks nearly identical to this one made by Clemen & Jung. I believe E. Pack and Sohne was a manufacturer of bayonets to the German army during WWII. It very well could be original but you should find an expert that can physically examine the blade to see if it is original.

http://www.johnsonreferencebooks.com/catalogue/weapons/bayonets/misc/23669.jpg

The price on this website to buy this dagger is $1,695. The caption is:

Short Third Reich Customs Official Clamshell Bayonet w/Variation scabbard. Clemen & Jung, Solingen, "Z" within crowned shield TM. This rare short bayonet, which was recently obtained in Germany, is pictured on page 121 of German Clamshells and Other Bayonets by Gary L. Walker andR. J. Weinand. Nickel plated hilt fittings show minor surface wear with a few faint "pecks" and one tiny spot of lifting to the upper backstrap/pommel, but no damage the superbly detailed eagle head pommel, oak leaf embellished crossguard, and clamshell with Weimar eagle. Dark brown stag horn grip plates show only minor surface wear with no cracks or chips. As is correct for the Customs bayonet, there is no grip emblem attached to the obverse grip plate and no evidence that one was ever present. Short, plated, single fullered, step-down blade measuring 19cm in length grades EX show minor surface wear/runner marks, a few gray specks and some "pecking" along the spine, but no nicks to the cutting edge which has been professionally sharpened. Blade is complete with brown leather buffer pad. Dent-free, variation KS/98 pattern, steel scabbard retains approximately 98% of the matte black enamel with only minor surface wear no damage to the lower ball. Nice short Customs clamshell bayonet with variation steel scabbard. Extremely RARE Third Reich bayonet. EX (23669) $1,695.

 

[trueblue1776]

wow, that looks like it. I believe mine originally had an emblem of some type in the middle of the grip. It has two holes and there are torn looking aluminum pins in the holes.

Without knowing anything about it yesterday I started looking up info, I thought it was a hundred dollar novelty knife. Now I'm starting to think it was one of Pop's war trophies.

Thanks