Knights Vs G.Is

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My guess is if the GIs gave ground to the cavalry they would be dead men. It would not significantly increase the amount of closing time but it would potentially cut their firepower in half or more. The horse cavalry is much much more mobile than the GIs. For that matter the standard infantry is probably as or more mobile than the GIs.

Plus a modern GI has no defense against a cavalry attack. No bayonets of suitable length, etc. Standard GI defense is a skirmish line which is the worst possible thing to do against sword cavalry.

The big question here is, how smart are the knights. If they are smart enough to use anti-archery and anti-artillery tactics (even medeival versions of the same) against the GIs then the GIs will be doomed. If the medievals scatter and flank them, the GIs will not be able to kill them all before the medievals close. The problem is that some of these tactics might be considered unchivalrous by medeival standards. Doesn't mean a good commander won't use them though.
 
AHA! But you have forgotten about The Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch! That could put the advantage in the medievals court.

hhg5.gif
 
 
Plus a modern GI has no defense against a cavalry attack. No bayonets of suitable length, etc. Standard GI defense is a skirmish line which is the worst possible thing to do against sword cavalry.
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Huh?

Tell ya what... You let me line up three 7.62 heavy machine guns, a half dozen SAWs, and a few bloopers, and you can charge your hundred or so horse cavalry toward me from 400 yards, and we'll see if any of 'em make it to within bayonet length...
 
Real quick, the medievals figure out the effective range of the 30 (they have the people to test it out, after all). They withdraw, encircle, and seige. It won't take much for them to realize bullets are finite. If the 30 want food or water, they're going to have to move. Your calvary can dog them constantly, forcing them to waste ammo, lose sleep, and are a serious threat. Your thousand kill any animals and slash and burn any possible food source. If it drags out long enough, they'll figure out that enough metal is "bullet proof" or build stone "fox holes" at key positions. Finally, fire and smoke (launched from the archer platforms) can be used for concealment, confusion, and to waste futher ammo.
 
Okay, are these Knights vs GIs in the Middle Ages, or Knights vs GI in the Modern Era? Knights/GIs transported via a dimensional gate into the other's territory...

Knights vs GIs in the Middle Ages, the first skirmish would have the GIs win, but soon, they will lose because there is no resupply coming in.

Knights vs GIs in the Modern Era, the first skirmish would have the Knights win, because the GIs would not be given any ammo, just blank adapters, and MILES gear. Second and subsequent skirmishes though, would have the Knights lose as they get pummelled by PETA supporters about their use of animals in warfare.

Now, if we can figure out a way to send all the PETA supporters back to the Middle Ages... :D
 
They will. It happened a few times at the begining of WWI. A unit of germans held their fire as the horse cavalry closed knowing that cavalry always dismounts to fight in this day and age (and dismounted make for better targets too). Once the cavalry got to within a few hundred yards they charged. The germans could not kill them fast enough and the cavalry broke through. Keep in mind this was WWI and the germans had machine guns, etc.

A skirmish line is the worst formation against cavalry, especially sword wielding cavalry. The cavalry will dart back and forth in between the soldiers, cutting or riding them down as fast as they can. If the GIs run it gets even better. Back in the 1700s and 1800s was to use infantry and artillery to break the unit formation so the cavalry could come in and do <i>real</i> damage.
 
Well, lets just say that the medievals are Mongols. This article here says the Mongol archers could score hits out to 350 yards and beyond. These were also some extremly tough dudes (and dudettes apparently) that would probably take a few hits to bring down.

Now, if your GIs included a guy on a Mark 19.....
things could get interesting.
 
Shalako said:
Well, lets just say that the medievals are Mongols. This article here says the Mongol archers could score hits out to 350 yards and beyond. These were also some extremly tough dudes (and dudettes apparently) that would probably take a few hits to bring down.
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sure, let's say they're mongols. so yes, some of them can take shots at 320m and might be pretty tough. just like the english who could hit up to 228m. unfortunately, that's using the bows as an indirect fire instrument, which is inherently inaccurate when using something that easily affected by wind, and therefore only useful in huge volleys. which means they'd have to close in a good 75-100m before they could effectively engage the USGIs. that's plenty of time for the 203s and 240s to wreak some pretty serious havoc on the mongols.

so that means the USGIs would waste a bunch of mongols, and might actually sustain a casualty or two instead of coming out completely unscathed like against european medievals.
 
After taking a few casualties, the Mongols would have ridden away giving full impression that they routed.

Then they would ride several days around to the back of the GI unit and struck again out of ambush when the GIs were least expecting it.

Mongols don't charge from the front if there is a chance of taking an objective by surprise.

The Mongols, Early Imperial Romans and Alexandrian Macedonians were as professional and trained as modern US soldiers.
 
good thing the GIs maintain 360 degree security. not saying it's impossible to sneak up on them, but it's not easy, either.

and just because you're well trained and professional doesn't mean you won't panic if all of a sudden, completely out of your sphere of experience, people start falling down bleeding badly and the ground starts exploding, and all you hear is loud noises from the other side of the field and "zip" noises around you.

an intelligent commander would probably decide that somone who is that deadly at such a range is probably best left alone.
 
If the medievals are Mongols, the percentage who are archers goes way up and the percentage of spearmen falls. That increases the range, the mobility, and the absolute numbers of the missiles the GIs stand to take.
 
We came to the conclusion that the G.Is would kill about 450 - 800 enemy troops before being trampled to death. Any comments?
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A force that would trample anything other than a hasty path to the rear after taking 45-80% casualties would be a rare force indeed.



It's fun to pontificate on, but if you want to see what happens to people who try and cross 400 yards of open ground into the teeth of even a handful of crew-served and/or automatic weapons, read up on the Somme, Ypres, "The Corpse-Fields of Loos", et al
 
The human element is always present but that arguement could go on forever. So for a moment, assume the knights march forward using whatever tactics were common for the period.

Think about the fire you can bring to bear with all that equipment. Taking the average sustained ROF for the MGs, a guesstimated fifty RPM for the M21(just a guess as to how many aimed shots you can make into a crowd of knights :) ) and the M16A2s semiauto ROF, we come up with one thousand, seven hundred and seventy rounds per minute. Even if we throw in reloads, misses and such the knights are looking at a wall of bullets. They be would hard pressed to close the four hundred yards before they had been blasted all to hell. If you bring in good commanders, than it gets interesting.
 
Would Scotland be an independant country...

.....if William Wallace and his men had M-14 rifles instead of hand weapons?

It'll be great to see what would have happened in "Braveheart" if during the first battle scene with the cavalry charge, WW and his guys wipped out semi-auto .308 guns instead of replying on pikes?

Heck, with 1 FAL and 1 M-1 for every 5 men I think they would be able to march straight to London and make Longshanks eat his own S$%^.
 
*raises an eyebrow*

Magic is a wild card; its capabilities can't be quantified well enough for any kind of battlefield simulation.


Something people seem to be forgetting: an infantry or cavalry formation is an area target, not a point target. That means every single weapon the moderns have (except for the M9 pistols) can engage right away; against area targets, an M-203 is good to 400 meters, an M-16 to 800 meters against area targets, an M249 to 1000 meters and an M240 to 3725 meters.

It'll be a turkey shoot, with the snipers picking off knights one by one, the grenadiers breaking up the infantry ranks with HE or incendiary rounds, and everyone else pouring a storm of lead into whoever's unfortunate enough to be in front.
 
it also depends on when and where, in a big field during the summer you could cook out the GIs by setting the field on fire, while the GIs are trying to keep their ammo from cooking off and keep from getting burned the archers close and volley.
 
Right, fire and smoke remove the sniper advantage (can't make aimed shots). Coming from the archers, fire and smoke closes the charging range from 400 to 200, since the 30 can't see anything meaningful until then.
 
We're forgetting that any knight capable of fighting after losing both arms and legs is going to be merely annoyed by 5.56 hits. "Tis but a scratch, I've had worse" ;)
 
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