TexasBill
Member
Thirty rounds of ineffective is still ineffective. The 5.56 was never intended to be a long-range round, especially in a short barrel.
AP - US rifles not suited to warfare in Afghan hills
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Thirty rounds of ineffective is still ineffective. The 5.56 was never intended to be a long-range round, especially in a short barrel.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Olympic 300 OSSM?
New cartridge, not much data.
The 300 OSSM upper mounts to a standard AR15/M16 lower.
150 gr @ 3,000 fps, essentially 30-06 ballistics.
Adequate?
Setting the obvious logistics problems aside (like availability, testing and approvals, etc.) a cartridge like that might be worth considering in long range battle situations.
Of course, the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC have a real head start, but I still wonder if something like this could be viable.
New cartridge, not much data.
The 300 OSSM upper mounts to a standard AR15/M16 lower.
150 gr @ 3,000 fps, essentially 30-06 ballistics.
Adequate?
Setting the obvious logistics problems aside (like availability, testing and approvals, etc.) a cartridge like that might be worth considering in long range battle situations.
Of course, the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC have a real head start, but I still wonder if something like this could be viable.
MTMilitiaman
Member
With regard to the Afghanis, I would expect them to be a lot like us. Here in MT, there is still a large rural population. While most of these people are probably familiar with guns, probably relatively few of them are true experts. The number of people that can make consistent first round hits on individual targets at 600+ yards is rather small here as well. But most of the population has access to at least a hunting rifle and the skill to use it effectively to at least a couple hundred yards. Combine this with a knowledge of local terrain, a basic understanding of camouflage and ambush tactics, and you might not need 600+ yards. I don't think underestimating the capabilities of a properly motivated amateur rifleman with a high powered rifle in his own backyard is wise.
Some say the American rifleman is a myth as well...
Some say the American rifleman is a myth as well...
The ability to hide amongst the populace and have no one rat you out due to a thousands of years old tribal code is also one hell of an advantage (Google Pashtunwali).
Right now, the primo issue optic to have on your weapon is the ACOG with the red dot mounted on top - see here for how it looks. Primary color is still black, primary reticle is chevron.
Generally, the ACOG is viewed as "cooler" but I don't think most of the line guys actually put a lot of thought into their preferences. About 25% of my guys have ACOGs, the rest have red dots, and I don't feel that either are underequipped to handle a fight. The environment will differ across Afghanistan, but in our piece of it most small arms engagements are not an exchange of sniper fire. Enemy ambushes will get as close as they can while maintaining the ability to exfil quickly. I don't want to discuss TTPs in detail, but suffice to say that if a sniper is encountered on either a mounted or dismounted patrol, we have more options at our disposal than those who came before us in Vietnam and other conflicts. Small arms aren't the only thing in the toolbox.
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redraider1109
Member
While I am personally no fan of the AR series in the field, especially upon having to clean dust and dirt from it, whether West Texas or Baghdad, I do think that some context should come into play here. It's not really like we are up against the type of sharp shooters that won the revolutionary war here...
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/the-weakness-of-taliban-marksmanship/
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/the-weakness-of-taliban-marksmanship/
C-grunt
Member
People act like Soldiers and marines are only carrying M4s on patrol. Every platoon should have several SAWs and 2 M240s. Then you usually have a couple designated marksmen and the grenade launchers.
On top of that you have the vehicle mounted weapons if you arent on foot patrol.
A 5.56 through the chest at 600 meters is really going to mess your day up. If it hits you in the arm, you probably arent that bad off.
Look at that marine in the video. He took a round through the shoulder and wasnt to bad off. He coulda still fought if really needed. And he was probably shot by a .30 caliber battle rifle like a Mosin or an Einfield.
A friend of mne was home on leave from Afghan a few weeks ago. He stated he has never been "outranged" by the Taliban. He said any time they came under fire, his Soldiers were able to return fire no problem.
On top of that you have the vehicle mounted weapons if you arent on foot patrol.
A 5.56 through the chest at 600 meters is really going to mess your day up. If it hits you in the arm, you probably arent that bad off.
Look at that marine in the video. He took a round through the shoulder and wasnt to bad off. He coulda still fought if really needed. And he was probably shot by a .30 caliber battle rifle like a Mosin or an Einfield.
A friend of mne was home on leave from Afghan a few weeks ago. He stated he has never been "outranged" by the Taliban. He said any time they came under fire, his Soldiers were able to return fire no problem.
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