Knives the bad guys carry part II

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mercop

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In the past I have posted pictures of confiscated knives, I decided to take the confiscated knives I had laying around that I use for classes and analyze them. There were 11 knives, and everyone of them was taken from someone who was arrested. Although I cannot recall I am pretty sure that they all had previous criminal records. Most bad guys give the excuse of self defense for the reason they carry edged weapons.
knives014.jpg


Out of 11 knives, six were fixed blades, 3 were kitchen type knives, 3 were folders (one was a folding razor type and one cheap balisong), and three were box cutter/razor knives.

In the state of Maryland where they were seized only the folder on the bottom right hand side and the balisong are legal to carry.

The average blade length was 2.82 inches.

Further analysis shows that five of them would stab/cut, four would slash only and two would stab only.

The reality is that non of these offenders were charged with the carrying of these concealed weapons. For the folks carrying them it was the least of their problems.

Although I am sure that there individuals who carry machetes and bowie knives I have to believe these examples are indicative of knives the policeman or citizen will likely face on the street.

Since I don't, nor am I aware of any training programs that specifically focus on these types of weapons I think it is a good idea to think about these types of weapons when you think about having to defend against one. Not bowie knives or machetes.

Two points that stand out to me in reference to edged weapon attacks are that the majority of the time the victim never sees the knife and instead thinks they are being punched and that the last few cuts or stabs are the fatal ones.

Armed with this information and seeing how small the average size is of and edged weapon we will likely see on the street you can see why people seldom see them.

Again we are taken back to the fundamental rule of defending against the mechanism of the attack and not the tool.

Try not to get cut.

If you must take a cut, minimize it.

Control the weapon arm.
 
Makes thinking about some training in hand to hand fight techniques a smart step. Very problematic for me. At 58 with some bad shoulder problems, I don't have near the strength compared to just three years ago. :(

Need to be VERY aware of close encounters. :scrutiny:

Mark.
 
In my experience 9MM and below, cheap guns. I am retired now but over the last few years I saw a huge increase in airsofts being carried. The are easy to get, cheap, light and look real. Just like police bad guys seldom have to do more than point their guns for the desired effect.
 
I bet they usually carry .25 ACP. Seriously, I never hear ANYTHING even remotely positive about that cartridge. Has anyone ever used it for anything except wasting the guy who ripped you off in your last drug deal?
 
Have you heard/seen anything about the weapon taped to the hand so the bad guy can't drop it during the fight and/or about lubing up the knife arm so it's tough to control? Seems like I heard something about both of those a while back, but it seems really comitted for someone who, in all reality, is just looking for a quick opportunity.

Besides, how would the average dirtbag/banger/whatever explain an armload of vaseline to a potential, uh, "date?"
 
I have only heard of that in jail. One of my private students is on the MD State DOC CERT team and he tells me this is a very common tactic.
 
Hoplophile said:
I bet they usually carry .25 ACP. Seriously, I never hear ANYTHING even remotely positive about that cartridge. Has anyone ever used it for anything except wasting the guy who ripped you off in your last drug deal?

Positive 1 - it was designed by John Browning... Which is always a postiive.
Positive 2 - it is centerfire and not primer fired so it is more reliable to pop than a .22
Positive 3 - They come in light, easy to conceal pistols

I carry one as an always gun. Usually it is a backup, sometimes a primary. While it isn't a great cartridge compared to the .38 or 9mm, it does have a place. It has been used extensively in gang warfare where it has produced it's fair share of bodies, so I think in that regard it is slightly underrated. Obviously, carry something bigger if you can...

I shot a bucket full of sand (moist sand they use for landscaping) with the .25. It penetrated about six inches, made a 1" wide hole. I was actually surprised at how well it did.

I think the .25 is squarely in the "better to have A gun than NO gun" rule and is what the old gunfighters would call "the margin", usually they were referring to a derringer or like they had hidden on them somewhere.
 
Awesome info on the knives....If those are the average knoves carried by average dirtbags then my myth is true...My 357. will definetly be more mightier then their "swords"
 
It is my belief that within arms distance the blade knows no rival. A box cutter across the face is an attention getter.
 
Good info for sure. Thanks. Reinforces the need for situational awareness and not to let the scummer get on you. If he does the snubby is brutal at contact distance too.
 
mercop: I'm inclined to agree, having seen what a real knife (a true combat knife) can do at close range in the hands of a truly depraved and skilled individual.

Up close, I'm drawing my knife until I can get away to fire a shot off.
 
I bet they usually carry .25 ACP. Seriously, I never hear ANYTHING even remotely positive about that cartridge. Has anyone ever used it for anything except wasting the guy who ripped you off in your last drug deal?

Not long ago in Detroit, a lady (and I do not think I am misusing the term) told me that she stopped a home invader half way through her window with three rounds COM with a .25. She did admit that he made it to the hospital under his own power.
 
I own a .25acp. I carried it as a last-ditch-the-poop-has-hit-the-fan-and-I-am-out-of-ammo-for-my-primary-and-backup-and-the-ammo-fairy-has-failed-to-drop-another-loaded-magazine-into-my-lap gun.

It is a very good quality .25acp a Baby Browning...but as I mentioned above...it was a last-ditch weapon, that I MIGHT have used if my knife had been lost too. But, that all being said, it was a comfort to have in my uniform jacket pocket.

With the advent of the Seecap .32acp, and now the KelTec P3AT...It just sits in the safe. Heck, I may haul it out to my back yard range and put a box of rounds through it for old time's sake.

Still...all of us who dirt talk the .25acp...are any of us willing to get shot by one? I am in the NOT ME camp.
 
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Retired Fed said:
Still...all of us who dirt talk the .25acp...are any of us willing to get shot by one? I am in the NOT ME camp.

Not me brother...

The .25 ACP does better than it's paper figures might suggest. That being said, it is a true CONCEALED weapon, small caliber, not wonderfully accurate, you need to be close, but then that is the point.

I wouldn't want to get in a gunfight with a .25, but I wouldn't want to get in a gunfight with an m4 or anything else.

Fire, move, stay low, find cover. Doesn't matter what caliber you are shooting, the rules are the same.

Retired Fed said:
I own a .25acp... It is a very good quality .25acp a Baby Browning

I have a Lorcin L25... I have polished the ramp, put in a new extractor, extractor spring and extractor pin. Believe it or not, it is reliable as all get out now. Sounds funny, but I like the ZINC, as ZINC doesn't rust, so in the hot, humid summer of TX, it can stay slapped close to my skin with no ill effects. I hate stripping it, but other than that, I bought it for $45.00 and you can't beat it. I would prefer a baby Browning though...

But I know me, if I had one, I would lock it up in the safe as being to valuable / rare or whathaveyou and still carry the Lorcin. :uhoh:
 
Calibers 9MM and under seem to do a pretty good job of killing people in places like Baltimore City. Are you any less dead from a shot with a 25 than a 45?
 
Someone was seriously carrying that little safety box cutter as a weapon? the metallic one on the bottom? I used those at a job once. Those have only 1/4" of blade available and would be completely useless for anything but cutting tape to open boxes?

boxcutter2.jpg
 
Same rule as with the .25...do you want to be cut with one? Palpate the carotid artery in your neck. How far down does that major artery feel? Guess what happens if it gets nicked?

There are a number of major arteries that are accessible with this blade. If you don't know where they are, you should. There are also a number of tendons which can be severed with this blade.

Actually I'd be concerned if confronted with this blade. I'd be concerned that the wielder knew exactly where those vulnerable arteries and tendons were located and how best to access them with that teeny weensy blade.

Back in the 1950's a relative was defeated in a beer joint close to here. When he said uncle, the other guy kept kicking him around the floor. My relative took out his pocket knife. Small pocketknife and the blade he managed to open was the smallest. Little more than an inch long. He caught the guy by the leg as he got kicked. Guy dragged him back to the other leg which he also grabbed. Then he started cutting the guy behind the legs just above the knee. That guy has never walked since that day.

Beware the guy with the little blade. He probably knows how to use it.

Up close, I'm drawing my knife until I can get away to fire a shot off.

I hope you've got training with a knife and practice with a knife on a darn regular basis. I've got knife training and against a knife the last thing I'm going to try to do is close with the opponent. All kinds of things take precedence. Picking up any kind of improvised distance weapon that might be in the vicinity-a pipe, a rake, garbage can lid. You don't want to get into knife on knife even if the other guy doesn't really know what he's doing. If he does know what he's doing...

Read what mercop said about arms length. The best defense against a knife is not being in arms length. Practice your draw, practice getting off of the line of attack, and practice doing both simultaneously.
 
Two points that stand out to me in reference to edged weapon attacks are that the majority of the time the victim never sees the knife and instead thinks they are being punched and that the last few cuts or stabs are the fatal ones.
I've heard this too. If you're being attacked, especially in the dark, it's best to assume that every punch is actually a stab.
 
Well said, if you always train with the belief that there is a knife in the hand all your techniques will be better.
 
My opinion is that 99% of people fail psychologically and not physically.

The smallest razor slash across the face will stop lots of people. Just seeing someone slashed with a razor makes many people freeze.
 
RE-the bit about the victim thinking he was being punched:Many folks ( good and bad ) who carry/sue edged steel for social work are NOT going to show it to you before ,or as you are stepping in to them.Most of us willl try and "jailhouse" you( keep it out of sight /palmed/hidden by the wrist/forearm (depending on grip)...the whole point ( no pun intended) is to NOT make it into a contest or a duel ;but to mak eYOU get the point.
Some combatives and /or MMA trainingwhich has a wrestling/judo/BJJ base;a,although otherwise sound and balanced systems teach guys ( when dealling with a smaller/faster "striker" type to "eat the punch"....which in view of what you DON'T always see /notice in time can have fatal results.
ALWAYS fighure there is more than what you are being shown....if you close the distance fast make certain HIS/HER hands are neitralized;cause frankly;NO ONE is going to stand there and "duel" with you-they are going stab&drag,repeat as needed.
 
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