Kobashi Maru

[Trunk Monkey]

http://www.krdo.com/news/man-carjacked-by-pair-after-offering-them-a-ride/36073176

There was a car jacking in Colorado Springs yesterday. I don't have any more details than what's in the article but by understanding is the car jackers approached the victim, talked him into giving them a ride and when they got where they were going pulled a gun and took the car.

I know that most of the people reading this are thinking the same thing I was thinking when I read it "I never would have let them in the car in the first place." but I suspect that the car jackers approached the guy with the intent of car jacking him and had he turned them down they just would have taken the car then and there.

So even though part of our training is (or should be) avoiding the encounter in the first place there may come a day when we simply can't.

So my question is this.

In a situation like this, where someone approaches you in a public place where they have every right to be and asks you a question (however inappropriate) they have every right to ask. How do you (for lack of better term) deescalate the situation with you becoming the aggressor yourself.

 

[hso]

There's always the "phone on vibrate" ruse option to pretend to answer a call and drift off for privacy to break off if you suspect the need to do so. Supplemented with a "Sorry, I had forgotten to check the time and the two guys just walked up and we started talking. I'll be right there. ... Sorry guys, gotta go, obligations and all that"

 

[Tinman357]

No need to deescalate. Just say no. End of conversation. I'm under no obligation to give any one a ride, handout, cigarette, anything.

But maybe I misunderstood the question.

 

[The Alaskan]

I always keep enough distance between my car, and the next car, that I can floor it and swerve out onto a sidewalk or another lane if I think I'm in danger, which has only happened once. (Homeless guy through a brick at my truck.)

I don't carry a weapon for self defense, so going into that mode isn't an option for me.

Just always leave yourself an escape route. Remember deNiro in "Ronin." "I never go into a place I don't know how to get out of."

 

[9mmepiphany]

How do you (for lack of better term) deescalate the situation with you becoming the aggressor yourself.

Becoming the aggressor isn't deescalating the situation, it is escalating it.

If you suspect you are in this kind of situation, you really don't want to do either.

What you want to do, as hso stated, is create distance from the approaching perpetrators and not get pinned against your vehicle. A quick distraction coupled with walking away from their point of focus usually provides the great number of escape routes

 

[geologist]

It is better to have a stranger think that you are rude as opposed to getting suckered.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Keep the doors locked and the windows up while in the car. Don't roll them down for anyone you don't know. Don't open the door for anyone you don't know.

Remember, you don't need a gun for self defense in this situation, not when you're in control of a very powerful two ton weapon. Keep your distance, try to avoid getting boxed in, and if push comes to shove, ignore traffic laws and use the sidewalk if you need to. A 4-wheel drive vehicle helps to avoid just about any situation you don't want to be in. As soon as you can, get on the horn with the cops and report what is going on/ what just happened. Especially if you blow red lights or use the sidewalk as an escape route, because others will surely report that to the cops.

I've had enough briefings overseas about defensive and offensive driving techniques (and put some of them to use in Iraq) that it's become second nature.

 

[Odd Job]

The number of options decreases dramatically as soon as you get in the car with two strangers. You'll have one next to you and one behind, at that point you are at a severe disadvantage.
As others have said, you should come up with a ruse to stay put or move off.

 

[Devonai]

In case anybody doesn't get the reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru

 

[lemaymiami]

This is the kind of thing that can happen to anyone -if they're not aware and ready to deal with whatever comes.... As a young man I routinely picked up hitchhikers and was pretty naive about the danger that any stranger might represent....

Fast forward fifty years (and with a career in policing behind me...) I long ago changed how I deal with random encounters. Unless I'm absolutely certain that my "good samaritan" side should be at the fore - I treat strangers with requests for money, assistance, etc. as potential threats, period. Without raising my voice or changing my demeanor in any way I look them right in the eye and simply say, "No". If the encounter is going to go bad I want it right then and there and I'm prepared for however it turns out. Most predators (or those wanting to be predators if they spot weakness) aren't looking for anyone that might be a problem - and that's to your advantage. If you need to have an excuse or alibi that is up to you -but I long ago learned the hard way to face potential trouble and deal with it.... When approached by anyone that I don't know in public I always move just enough so that I'm in a defensive stance without offering the slightest hint of aggression. I maintain a polite and respectful demeanor (even when dealing with a dirtbag) and do nothing to indicate that I'm prepared for conflict if it comes. If action is required I want it to be a very sudden surprise (since the good guys don't always win....).

By the way, I haven't carried a sidearm once in the twenty years I've been retired from police work.... In those twenty years I went back to fishing and have been a full time fishing guide down here in south Florida. That means at all hours of the day or night I'm towing a small skiff and stopping at various gas stations and tackle shops for fuel and other necessities year 'round - many times in not very safe areas.... If not carrying a gun is a mistake on my part -I'll be the first one to learn about it....

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Becoming the aggressor isn't deescalating the situation, it is escalating it.

That was supposed to be WITHOUT you becoming the aggressor

 

[PJSprog]

I'm not convinced this truly is a "Kobayashi Maru" situation, as there certainly are winning options available.

I was going to post a long diatribe about how to extract yourself from or take charge of the situation. However, lemaymiami seems to have covered that pretty well.

Once you get to the fight or flight stage, though, it's your level of training and confidence in your abilities that will make that decision for you.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Don't look "approachable"...

 

[lemaymiami]

Trunk if you read "aggressor" in my comments I didn't intend that in any sense of the word.... Any attempt to defuse a potentially dangerous situation that works is okay by me. What I've described is what has actually worked well for me on a number of occasions. To date, knock on wood, the simple verbal response that I've indicated has been as far as its gone. Being prepared for the next level if it comes is your obligation in my world. Maybe it's because I've been at every level in the "continuum of force" that I was taught years ago that's left me with this mindset. I have actually been in many "use of force" situations in my police years that ranged from brief scuffles all the way to as bad as it gets. If you're ever accused in your local paper of serious crimes while a cop you won't be forgetting it any time soon.... I've been very fortunate not to need to use force in any situation these past twenty years (including two incidents when I was confronted by individuals that were armed with knives -one was a three on one deal....). Can't tell you how happy I am that I'm long out of police work. The times we're experiencing now are but an echo of the situation that existed in this country when I was hired back at the end of 1973. In that era there were actually organized ambushes of police officers in some places....

If I'm lucky I'll spend the rest of my life without raising a hand to another man - and stay out of any court rooms as well....

 

[Jeff White]

I'm not convinced this truly is a "Kobayashi Maru" situation, as there certainly are winning options available.

I agree with PJSprog. There are plenty of ways to disengage. hso mentioned a good one to use.

When I was working the street and often had to give people a ride (rural area) they were patted down before they got in the car (back seat behind the cage).

I don't give people who I don't know rides. I've offered to call a ride for someone who was broken down or call 911 for them, but no one who I don't know is getting in my vehicle.

 

[P5 Guy]

Keep the doors locked and the windows up while in the car. Don't roll them down for anyone you don't know.

Not much good if the top is down? I love my convertible and the top is only on when it is raining.

 

[old lady new shooter]

1. I would never give a ride to anyone I don't know.

2. Being an old lady who doesn't move too fast, before I get close to my car I first check for people I don't want to interact with.

3. If someone in a public space that I don't want to interact with talks to me from the side, I just keep going as if I didn't hear them, if from the front I just look at them as if I didn't understand and keep going.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The reason I said this was a Kobayashi Maru is because I think there would have been a confrontation no matter what. There obviously things the victim could have done to come out on top but I don't think he could have avoided the confrontation which would have been the ultimate win

 

[joem1945]

Many very good thoughts on this. Thanks, but I'll still keep my guns.

 

[Jeff White]

The reason I said this was a Kobayashi Maru is because I think there would have been a confrontation no matter what. There obviously things the victim could have done to come out on top but I don't think he could have avoided the confrontation which would have been the ultimate win

Why do you think that? The article you posted gives no information at all about how the victim and the criminals came into contact with each other.

If the victim approached the criminals to offer assistance then the contact was avoidable. If the victim was already in the parking lot and the criminals approached him the contact still might have been avoidable. I don't think there is enough information in what you posted to decide if a confrontation was unavoidable or not.

If they had caught the victim outside his car and he was in a position where he had no retreat, he may have given them a ride because he felt he had no choice. But we simply don't know if that's what happened.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

Working in a big liberal sanctuary city full of vagrants and mostly having to use public transportation, I tend to say no before they they get close or even finish the question, keep my guard up, and keep on moving (of course trying not to step in human waste that hadn't been cleaned up by public works the night before. I try and avoid big cities and crowds in general.