Krag Jorgensen Rifles

[AlexanderA]

As a collector of U.S. military weapons, the main thought that goes through my mind when I see a sporterized Krag (or other ex-military rifle) is how easy or difficult it would be to restore it to original condition. Something that has simply had the stock cut down is much more desirable, to me, than a gun that has had extensive metal work. Drilling and tapping for a scope, for example, destroys the collector value.

Regarding Krags, one of the "holy grails" of U.S. military collecting is an unaltered Model 1894 with a full-length cleaning rod, no butt trap, and straight butt plate. Almost all of these were converted to the 1896 model by filling the cleaning rod channel and modifying the butt. If you find a Krag with a cleaning rod under the barrel, grab it for whatever price! (I was lucky enough to have found one while they were still unrecognized.)

An unmodified 1894 Krag is only slightly less rare than a 1918 Pedersen Device.

 

[CapnMac]

I had a boss, a long ways back, who had his dad's .30-40 Carbine. This was taken to the deer lease and fired maybe 4 or 5 times a year at distances as far as 60 yards (river bottom deer leases in central Texas can be like that).
My LGS at the time had a Phillipene Constabulary K-J that I almost picked up. Oh well.

 

[RPRNY]

The second largest Boone & Crockett elk, and it was the largest until about 12 or so years ago, was taken with a Krag and Elmer Keith wrote several times about the disproportionate effectiveness of the 30-40 on elk.

I have a 60s era sporter that was done extremely well and it is my favorite rifle to shoot. I also have a Ruger No 3 will deliver 30-06 factory performance with 180s. Would love to own a late model modern steel 1895 Winchester in 30-40.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

 

[tark]

AlexanderA, that Krag you described may be the holy grail of available guns in the Krag collector world, but there is one Krag, owned by the US Government, that is far rarer. As a matter of fact it is the only one in existence; An 1892 Krag carbine, residing in the Rock Island Arsenal's museum. Neat little gun, has full length stock. Resembles a Philippine Constabulary carbine at first glance.

The army only made two prototypes, one was lost, and the RIA Museum got the other. Sorry I don't have a better pic, but the gun is the third from the top

 

[tark]

For some reason my pic disappeared I'll try again

 

[tark]

AlexanderA an unaltered 1894 sold at RIA Co. a couple years back for five figures....but I bet you knew that!! They are extremely rare, for the same reason Gas Trap Garands are rare. I know a collector, who doesn't want his name out there, who has one example of each. The Garand is a type one gas trap. He also has the 99+% krag Carbine I posted a picture of earlier.

 

[highpower]

I was looking for a Krag to replace one I had foolishly sold years ago. What I found was that unaltered Krags are kind of hard to find at a price that didn't make my eyes water.

I finally scored one at the Big Reno show here and was able to get it for $700. Probably not the best price ever, but compared to some of the other ones I saw this one was a real gem. The bore is perfect and shiny, it has tons of it's original finish and the stock had never been sanded. This thing shoots beautifully and is as smooth as buttered glass.

Not too bad for a 115 years old:

 

[tark]

Highpower, you stole it at that price! Especially with that good bore. I paid that much for mine, with a horrible bore. (that still shoots respectively).

Not all Krags lock up on the front lug! Mine locks up on the front lug and the guide rib lug, with both bearing equally and evenly at the same time. Checked it by applying marking pen ink on both lugs and chambering a round. The ink was removed equally and evenly from both lugs.

Is mine just weird or did SA do this on purpose?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The second largest Boone & Crockett elk, and it was the largest until about 12 or so years ago, was taken with a Krag and Elmer Keith wrote several times about the disproportionate effectiveness of the 30-40 on elk.

All the old-timers respected the .30-40 on elk, and there were two reasons for that:

First, the .30-40 launched a long, 220 grain bullet at around 1,900 fps. That bullet would hold together and penetrate forever. The .30-06, with a 150 grain bullet (in those days), simple cup and core construction, and going more than 800 fps faster would often break up and fail to penetrate. When I was a boy, sporting magazines were full of stories about "bullet failure."

Next, many of the old timers compared the .30-40 with the .44-40, .30-30, and similar cartridges -- which are simply not in the same class.

 

[bannockburn]

highpower

Congrats on that great find! In great original condition and for $700; indeed, that is one fantastic buy on a Krag!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Got mine for 200$, looks like a tank ran over it but shoots great! Was apparently an RKO pictures prop gun missing the sights and modified to fire blanks. I removed the blank adapter, fitted 03 Springfield sights to it, scrubbed eight pounds of lead and powder residue out of the bore and went to town! Shoots 2 MOA all day....wouldn't believe the attention I get from the AR tactikids every time I blaze away with it at the local range!

 

[Bugster]

I just watched a video on you tube reviewing the Krag. That is one beautiful gun. I wish the time would come I could afford to get one, plus the ammo. Congrats to all og you Krag owners.

 

[Baby M]

Tark: Oooooh, very pretty!

s/n 341734 (if I read it correctly) is late in the range (290579 through 345318) for FY 1901 (7/1/00-6/30/01). Probable date of manufacture is sometime in the spring of 1901. If it's a carbine, it's likely a model 1899.

 

[tark]

It was defiantly a carbine, BabyM. And welcome to the monkey house.

My collector friend likes to specialize in US military arms that are either extremely rare, or standard issue guns that were never issued and are in like-new condition. The Krag carbine is an example of the latter. He has a Winchester Garand that has been graded by Scott Duff as a 99+% gun. It is probably the highest condition Winchester Garand in existence. Then there is the gas trap Garand...

He will not even consider a piece that is below 98% I'm driving out to visit him( he lives in California) next week and I hope to get more pics.

Wish I had his money!

 

[David4516]

I have a "sporterized" Krag, they're nice guns. I think the .30-40 cartridge is under-rated.

I think my might Krag might need a new barrel though, I think the headspace may be off. Fired brass has the shoulder in a different spot than it is on new brass, I'm sure that can't be good.

I'm actually considering selling it, I don't know if many gunsmiths these days even work on these rifles anymore. Don't know if anybody would want to buy one that needs work though...

If anybody on THR is interested send me a PM. If I do sell it, it would come with reloading dies, about 200 brass, and some 220gr round nose bullets...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I think my might Krag might need a new barrel though, I think the headspace may be off. Fired brass has the shoulder in a different spot than it is on new brass, I'm sure that can't be good.

Straighten out a paper clip, then make a small "L" bend near the tip. Use that to feel the inside wall of a ONCE-FIRED case just ahead of the web. If you feel a groove there, you have a headspace problem. Otherwise, you're good to go.

When you resize, neck size only, or at most, just "kiss" the shoulder.

 

[tark]

Good advice from Vern. Since the 30-40 headspaces on the rim and not the shoulder, the chances are you just have a chamber that is a little deep. not dangerous, just a pain to reload. But....

Since the gun WAS sporterized it might not have the original barrel. I find it hard to believe a barrel with a deep chamber got away from the workers at S.A. It may have an aftermarket barrel that was improperly chambered/ headspaced.

I have a Ross MkII that has a grossly oversize chamber, something they were famous for. Doesn't hurt a thing, other than rendering the once fired brass all but useless for reloading. The rifle is still deadly accurate.

If your gun passed Vern's test, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I have a Ross MkII that has a grossly oversize chamber, something they were famous for. Doesn't hurt a thing, other than rendering the once fired brass all but useless for reloading. The rifle is still deadly accurate.

My 1905 Ross has a chamber that's so deep the ejected cases look like .303 Epps. I had to have a special set of dies made for it.

Other than that, it shoots fine.

 

[David4516]

Ok thanks for the tip I'll try the paper-clip trick and see what happens...

The other thing I've noticed with this rifle is that it likes to pop the primers slightly out of their pockets after firing. Even with light loads.

I haven't shot it much, had the gun for a few years now but only taken it to the range a few times. Most of my Krag experience is with a different rifle, it was originally my friend's, then he sold it to my Dad. Both of them have let me shoot it on several occasions and this thing is a tack driver. It has a newer barrel and loves 180gr bullets with IMR 4350 powder. Consistently sub-MOA. Not bad for a 100+ year old rifle...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The other thing I've noticed with this rifle is that it likes to pop the primers slightly out of their pockets after firing. Even with light loads.

That's normal with light loads. What happens is the cartridge is driven slightly forward by the blow of the firing pin, and gas pressure flows back through the firing pin hole to push the primer out slightly. With a heavier load, pressure then forces the head of the cartridge back, re-seating the primer. With a light load, that might not happen.