Kuhnhausen

[1911Tuner]

Well...I bit the bullet last week and popped for Kuhnhausen's Shop
Manuals (1and 2).....and I'm a little underwhelmed. The information is
good, as near as I can tell, but I guess I was expecting a combination of
the Holy Grail and the Dead Sea Scrolls or somethin'...

There are a couple of points that I'm not entirely in agreement with, but
the main thing is that the way some of it is written is a little unclear.
I understand it, but someone who was just getting started with the 1911
would be scratchin' his head...

Volume 2 has some very good drawings and provides dimensions that
can be put to good use, and careful study would give a lot of insight as to
how the pistol works.

Maybe I'm bein' too hasty. I'm kinda in shock, since I learned that I'm
gonna be a grandpappy in April. Yep...Just got the news. Long story.
Lost touch with my daughter in Memphis...now livin' near Parsons, Tennessee, and we finally got in touch today. Now, ain't that a hoot?

I'll go through Volume 1 a little carefuller tomorrow and see if it's just me.

'Night all...Be of good cheer and thankful for another day.

Tuner

 

[BigG]

Hi Mr. Tuner!

I would think to a guy as advanced as you Kuhnhausen would be Old Hat but I found it quite helpful in understanding some of the finer points of Ole Slabsides guts and workings. However, I will be the first to agree that Ole Mr. Kuhnhausen could use a good editor to get his prose in understandable language. A good writer (meaning CLEAR) he is not. Also, Mr. Jim Keenan has often asserted and I wholeheartedly agree that Mr. Kuhnhausen's understanding of the operations of the pistol as fired do not jibe with reality. He thinks (IIRC) the bbl does not move until ye olde bullet leaves the muzzle. I fail to observe the same phenomenon meself.

Anyway, greetings ole pal! Good to see you catching up on yer reading.

 

[Jim K]

Yes, I still say he doesn't know how the darn gun works! But I still find the books useful. In most areas, there is little he can teach me, except for some of the production tools that I could never justify buying since I was not a dedicated 1911 smith.

The main use I have found lately for the books is when some guy on here or the 1911 forum asks the diameter of the safety spring plunger or some other esoteric bit of knowledge that few of us can really answer off the top of the old head.

Jim

 

[gamachinist]

Hi Tuner,
It's kind of odd that you brought this up.
I've got both books and I have a little trouble following along with them.
However,I was thinking today that the info you've posted here could be organised into a good how to book.(I haven't had any trouble following them btw)
Rather than publishing it in paper form,it could be made into an ebook and sold on cd or dvd.
Food for thought.........
Robert.

 

[1911Tuner]

Book

Howdy gamachinist,

A couple of the guys here have suggested that, and although I don't
see that there's much that I could write that hasn't already been written,
it's tempting.

I knew Jim Keenan would jump in the middle of this one when he saw
Kuhnhausen. There are a few points that are made in the book that
I gotta scratch my head over, for sure. I intend to cozy up with Volume 1
later today with a pot of coffee and a couple of Dr. Grabows pre-loaded
with some fresh Borkum Riff. Got a winter storm warning here with 6-8 inches expected.

Let'er rip! I got coffee...got smoke...got food...got heat that ain't electricity dependent, got nowhere to go, and got a 4WD F-150 in case I want to.

Life is good!

Cheers!

Toona

 

[Jammer Six]

There are a couple of points that I'm not entirely in agreement with, but
the main thing is that the way some of it is written is a little unclear.
I understand it, but someone who was just getting started with the 1911
would be scratchin' his head...

Oh, good. It's not me.

Now you know why we've exchanged so much email.

I have the same problem with all the "You, Too, Can Build Your Own House!" books put out by people who should really know better than to try to explain why hip rafters are laid out using 17 to someone who doesn't know a 2x4 from an albino kangaroo until the 'roo moves.

Unfortunately, there's nothing else out there, so we struggle along, and send you email.

 

[JeffC]

I've got vol.2 only, I thought vol.1 was discontinued , oh well, no matter, I've got all of Grampa Tuners Texts .

BTW, congrats Tuner .

 

[Jammer Six]

Grampa?

You're younger than I am?

I've been a grampa for two years. I had this vision of an ancient, venerable old guy who fought and was wounded by a musket ball.

Jeez.

What you don't know about a guy...

 

[JeffC]

LMAO Jammer .......

 

[kimbernut]

Kuhnhausen manuels

Ya'll have made my day too! I picked up Vol.2 first just because that was all that was available at the time and went thru what I could absorb but had an awful lot of questions. I picked up Vol.1 at the next gun show and after perusing it realized they call them vol.1 & vol.2 for a reason. DUH! Vol.2 assumes you have already read Vol.1 . Many of my questions were answered but many more were left unanswered.Then I found you guys and it's slowly coming together.

1911 Tuner, congratulations on the soon to be Grampa role- bet you'll do that well too. I'm 51 and been a G'dad for 8 years now-nothing else like it.
I've been thru the Kuhnhausen's, Simpson's , Wilson's and Hallock's books but I've gotten more from your entries here than anything else. If that book ever comes about I'll take three. Thanks.

 

[1911Tuner]

Gran'pa

Jammer said:

I've been a grampa for two years. I had this vision of an ancient, venerable old guy who fought and was wounded by a musket ball.

Yep! Sharpsburg it was...The Yankee aggressors called it Antietam, but
that's just another reason we got ta fightin' ta start with. Who ever
heard of namin' a battle after a dang creek...

Actually, my daughter waited to have her first one...She's 32, so I might
be a little older than ya think.
-----------------------

Jeff, after a few days of playin' E-mail tag with my man Jammer here, I
found that a dry wit and sense of humor would be an asset over on
that other forum. Wish it was somethin' that could be learned.
It's just a trait you're born with, I reckon.

You can order Volume 1 from Brownells catalog #56. I'll look the part number up and post it if ya can't find it.

Cheers!
Tuner

 

[Jammer Six]

Actually, my daughter waited to have her first one...She's 32, so I might
be a little older than ya think.

Well, maybe so.

Actually, now that I think about it, I've been a grandfather for quite a while, though.

My oldest is my son, who is 24. Or maybe it's 25. Or could be 26. Or something.

Anyway, he's just about old enough to get his driver's license. He's so screwed up that he lives in California, and thinks that computers are not only here to stay, but are the wave of the future. So he programs them, or engineers them, or some ridiculous thing. I'm sure it's just a phase. The company he works for tricked him into working for them, by paying his way down there, and everything. I think it was the signing bonus that really suckered him. The things kids fall for.

My youngest didn't wait, she had her first son when she was still in high school, at 17, and her second a year later.

She has a temper that's even hotter than her mother's, and she's quite a bit smarter that I am. Just don't tell her that.

So I told her she'd never be able get an education, that no one finishes high school with kids. No one.

That really made her mad at me.

She finished high school with two children, just to Show Me. Insisted I come to the commencement, and everything.

She showed me so well that I told her that while that was impressive, she would never, under any circumstances, be able to make it through college with two children, so she should probably start looking for a husband.

That earned me the title of "chauvinistic son of a bitch", and then she had a third kid and got married, just, apparently, to increase the difficulty factor, and drive her point completely home.

If they can hang in there, she'll start her senior year in college next fall.

Gee. I guess she's showing me.

I figure I'll wait until next Christmas or so, and then tell her that they'll never let her into any graduate school anywhere in the country with three kids...

I wonder what riding on Air Force One will be like.

Will I be able to carry, being the First Father, and all?

 

[stans]

I have read both of Kuhnhausen's 1911 manuals and I agree with the above posts. The first did give me some information and guidance, but some of the text is really hard to follow. The second manual is nice, but I was disappointed in that it was mostly dimensional drawings and added little to the techniques of the first book.

 

[gamachinist]

Tuner said:

" Howdy gamachinist,

A couple of the guys here have suggested that, and although I don't
see that there's much that I could write that hasn't already been written,
it's tempting. "


Tuner,
Keep in mind most of the now classic gunsmithing books have a lot of rehashing in them as there usually isn't more than a couple of ways of doing something right.

As for rehashing,if it was easier to understand and was both well written and well edited as opposed to something while full of technical details but hard to follow,it would sell.

One of my favorite gunsmith writers is the late Ralph T. Walker.
He put it into terms that were more easily understood without leaving out the important stuff.

So please consider writing up all this stuff.Half of it is probably already here on this forum!
I may be able to put you in touch with someone who has the ebook software to publish it if need be.
Robert.

 

[Jammer Six]

The second manual is nice, but I was disappointed in that it was mostly dimensional drawings and added little to the techniques of the first book.

For me, the notes on adjusting the trigger pull, alone, were worth the price.

 

[1911Tuner]

Volume 2

Well whaddaya know bout that? I was perusin' thru Book 2 over a leisurely
cuppa turbo coffee late this mornin', studyin' up on some of those excellent
mechanical drawin's...when I came to the extractor part. Lo and Bee-Hold...
Jerry says that in the event of the tolerances stackin' up between extractor and its channel and puttin' the extractor in a bind so that it can't cam open to let a round in...that you're supposed to reduce the center dog knot a little to give it some room to move.



Now..I gotta figger that either this Kuhnhausen feller is sharper'n I thought...or he just flat stole my idea!! Who woulda thunkit? Ta think
of all the flak I took over at that other forum for suggestin' such a thing,
and right there it was all along in the .45 bible!

Just in case any of them naysayers are lurkin' around watchin'...

Life is good...

Tuner

 

[Jim K]

I didn't know that was esoteric knowledge; it is a normal part of fitting an extractor. Tuner knows this, but for anyone who does not, just remember that the 1911 type internal extractor IS A SPRING. It has to flex and it has to have tension.

The originals were made by machining heavy spring steel wire, then heating, drawing and tempering. But spring steel costs money, and the process is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Most of the troubles with 1911 type extractors today are due to the fact that the wrong materials are used. Common bar stock will not make a good spring, no matter what you do to it. Cast or MIM extractors are even worse; they lose tension rapidly and tend to break.

Jim

 

[JNewell]

Is it just me? The extractor seems like one of the odder design/materials choices in an otherwise brilliant design suite.

 

[1911Tuner]

Oddities in the Design

JNewell said:

Is it just me? The extractor seems like one of the odder design/materials choices in an otherwise brilliant design suite.

Nope...In days of yore it was common for a part to be its own spring. The
Mauser-type extractor is an example...Go have a look at a Ruger M-77
bolt rifle to see it still workin'. Other examples are out there.

Jim said:

I didn't know that was esoteric knowledge; it is a normal part of fitting an extractor.

Sorry Jim...That was an attempt at a little wry humor that I just couldn't resist, and aimed squarely at a third party. I edited out my original
response, since it really doesn't need to be here.

JeffC...shhhh He might be lurkin' around...Don't wanna invite another
situation like we had before...

Cheers!

Tunafish

 

[ken grant]

off subject

Turbo coffee= Luzianne
Smoke = no longer Borkum Riff----bulk from Bruno's
5 grandkids
3 great grandkids
F150 4x4= 1978 w/ 90,000 miles
3 - 1911's= want one more

 

[JNewell]

It's not so much having the extractor be its own spring -- that isn't so uncommon. What seems funny is designing a part that seems to need so darned much machining to perform a simple task. But I guess you could say more or less the same thing about a Mauser-style extractor vs. the extractor on a push-feed bolt rifle. And, now that I think about it, I think I know one of the prime reasons that many rifle designs use the latter type.

 

[BigG]

I think I know one of the prime reasons that many rifle designs use the latter type.

CHEAP.

The idea of taking the goodness out of something until it just barely survives the warranty period is not new. A pal of mine years ago was having complexes and told me his father was an engineer for a company that shall remain nameless, however, its initials are GE. Once a consumer product was developed and rolled out, his dad's job was to remove material, cheapen the thing until it would wear out shortly after its one year warranty, with a certain acceptable failure rate during warranty. I don't think the guy ever overcame his disillusionment.

 

[1911Tuner]

Bolt Rifles

Ahh...JNewell, you just touched on another of my favorite subjects.

Push-feed bolt-action rifles are fine if sporting use is the intended role,
but in the beginning, bolt-action rifles were state of the art weapons
developed...like so many other designs...for the killing of men on the battlefield. As such, the bolts would be snapped hard and fast as the
fight grew more furious and ranges got closer. A failure to extract
was something that you didn't want to happen, not even once.
The controlled feed of the Mauser and its clones was also a safeguard against a round getting ahead of the bolt during the feed, and the shooter not realizing that there was round in the chamber, double-stroking the rifle,
and getting a ka-boom as the spire pointed bullet nailed the primer in
the unsupported chambered round when the rifleman slammed the bolt home. A battlefield is chock full of Murphy opportunities. Basically, the controlled feed system is simply more reliable under harsh conditions and
mad moments that prevail on a battlefield.

So, it my quarry is Pronghorn or Whitetail...varmint or bullseye, the
push-feed rifle will serve as well as any. If the role of my bolt-rifle
is getting me out of a killing field or going in the brush after a wounded
bear, I'll opt for the Mauser system every time.

Food fer thinkin'...No more, no less.

Tuner

 

[patentnonsense]

If it helps to advance the project, I can help with editing - I'm a pretty experienced wordsmith, but didn't really understand how a 1911 works until I took a clone apart myself. I'm finding Tune-man's posts very interesting indeed, and would be glad to help spread the info farther.

And BTW I have a huge library of engineering books, but it's amazingly difficult to find good texts on the details of firearms engineering. It's nice to see, for example, discussion about how the extractor is a spring, not a lump.

 

[1911Tuner]

Spread the Word

patentnonsense said:

would be glad to help spread the info farther.

By all means, lad...Help us out! I get in a rush sometimes, or just plain
get distracted here and have brainfarts and mental flameouts a-plenty.
If there's something that's seems like it wouldn't be clear to a reasonable
lady or gent, feel free to make suggestions.

Cheers!

Tuner