Lake City brass

[stovepipe699]

I had never heard of Lake City until seeing it on E-bay, and hearing about it here. It seems popular and I was wondering; 1) How does case capacity compare to commercial brass? 2) Is it made to closer tolerances? 3) Are the primer pockets more resistant to stretching? or are there other reasons? Before I order 700 or 1000 rounds of once fired stuff I want to do my homework. BTW I load 30-06 . What brand has the largest case capacity? My goal is to optimize performance and accuracy. I'm hoping someone can steer me in the right direction here. Thanks!

 

[bender]

LC makes the military brass. My only experience with it is in .223. From what I've read, it is supposedly slightly thicker than commercial brass and that you should reduce loads slightly. The LC brass I ordered (1000), I paid $10 extra for primer pockets to be processed (crimp removed).

I'm very happy with the brass, at least my 223. Plan to get a lot more.

 

[azredhawk44]

I don't know about case thickness in .30-06 LC brass, but in 7.62Nato it is thicker. Pressure rating is around 50,000PSI for 7.62x51 whereas .308 Winchester has a pressure rating around 65,000 IIRC.

One thing I would consider: This brass was probably manufactured before the advent of the M14 rifle and the 7.62x51 cartridge. That makes it around 60 years old.

Do you think that 60 year old milsurp brass is going to be superior to Winchester's current offering on their machinery today?

LC 7.62Nato or 5.56Nato are in current production in one of the most high-tech ammo plants in the world... but .30-06 isn't.

Just my thoughts... take them and $5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

[Khornet]

LC '06 brass

most of it I've seen in the last few years has been 1970s production. It is quality brass, and you shouldn't be afraid of it. I have reloaded 1942 GI brass and had it perform just fine, also, though I've not reloaded it more than 5 times so I can't comment on how long it lasts.

7.62 NATO cases do require some downloading due to case thickness, but '06 cases don't. Could be that the shorter case makes wall thickness matter in a way the longer '06 case doesn't.

 

[USSR]

stovepipe699,

1) How does case capacity compare to commercial brass?

Depends upon the commercial brass it's being compared to. Lake City '06 brass is nearly identical in case capacity to Lapua brass; it is less than Winchester and some others.

2) Is it made to closer tolerances?

No. You will find a much greater variance in case weight and capacity than commercial cases. For precision shooting, it is advisable to separate your LC brass by weight.

3) Are the primer pockets more resistant to stretching? or are there other reasons?

In .30-06, a little bit; not nearly as much as in .308.

What brand has the largest case capacity?

Norma, by a wide margin, closely followed by Winchester.

My goal is to optimize performance and accuracy.

Then buy either Lapua or Norma brass, RL22 powder, and Sierra 190gr MatchKings bullets. Let me know when you're ready to reload and I will give you my LR load data.

Don

 

[stovepipe699]

Thanks for the responses. So I guess the L-C is not what I need. I can get W-W brass(once fired, polished) for $10 per hundred. Is Norma or Lapua available for reasonable prices anywhere? Up here the store wants $1 each. Don, I'm up and loading, thanks for the offer, I'd definitly appreciate the load info. Everyone sure seems to like the alliant powders. I haven't tried them so far, b/c they're $5 per pound more than Hodgdon. Talk to ya later!
Rob

 

[Grumulkin]

I've found Lake City brass to be quite good when one discards all the brass with off center flash holes. I find that I discard about 50% of it for this reason.

 

[USSR]

Rob,

If you can get once-fire Winchester brass for $10 per hundred, then I would do that. Lapua is about $60 per hundred, and Norma requires you to take out a second mortgage on your house. Spend the time and match prep your Winchester brass. That includes: uniforming primer pocket, deburring the flash hole, and then making sure you don't have any exceedingly heavy or light cases (save them for fouler shots).

There are several things that you will want to do to develop precision loads in your '06 (we are talking about a bolt gun, not a Garand). First, you want as little neck tension as possible; just enough to hold the bullet in place. I don't know what kind of dies you have, but I would recommend you get a set of Redding bushing dies. Winchester brass has very thin necks, so you will likely use a .331 or .332 bushing. To determine this, measure a loaded cartridge using Winchester brass at the neck and subtract .001 from that number. Next, you want to know where your rifle's throat is, so that you can load your ammo so that the 190SMK is close to the leade. I suggest the Stoney Point OAL Guage used in conjuction with either a Sinclair comparator or the comparator made by Stoney Point. Once you measure your chamber OAL, you can set your seating die to seat your bullets in relation to where they would contact the leade. I like to seat the bullets so that they are either .010 off the leade, or .020 into the leade. RL22 is THE powder for the '06 with the 190SMK, so don't waste your time with anything else (BTDT). Have also found Fed 210M primers to work as good as anything, but you can experiment here with something else you may have, as long as it's not a magnum primer. Somewhere between 60.0gr and 61.0gr of RL22, you will find 2850-2900fps and an accurate load. Good luck.

Don

 

[Walkalong]

Have shot a bunch with no problems. Work your load up with them as you would any change of components.

 

[Dr. Dickie]

I actively seek, will pay a bit extra for, and try to use nothing but, Lake City brass.
Good stuff.

 

[ocabj]

LC brass isn't the greatest, but it tends to last awhile.

What are you loading for in .30-06? A Garand? Then the LC is decent brass for that application. I've found that the LC brass, particularly from the late 60s on up is hard brass. I personally like the brass from the Greek HXP surplus sold by the CMP.

If you're loading for a bolt gun, I'd probably seek different brass. Lapua, as already mentioned, would be the best. After that, I'd just go with commercial Winchester brass.

I only use LC for .223 in the AR and if it's a competition load, I'll use it for short line ammo only. I still use Lapua for 600.

 

[stovepipe699]

Don, did you find the 190 SMK more accurate than the 168 SMK? Do you have better accuracy with Sierra bullets than Hornady? Is using the OAL length guage more accurate than seating the bullet a little at a time until the bolt just closes? I am using a Lee turret press, Lee collet neck sizing die(light neck tension), and an RCBS competition seating die. The bullet comparators you speak of allow you to take OAL measurement to the bullet ogive, right? Measuring OAL to the bullet tip seems to be a guess instead of an accurate measurement. Comparator and primer pocket uniformer are next on my wish list. OAL guage I'm not sure. Talk to you later.
Rob

 

[30Cal]

The 190 has better wind drift numbers then the 168gr (like most 30cal match bullets) when you get past 300yds.

I've found the Nosler match bullets shoot excellent. I buy whichever I can get the better deal on.

 

[stovepipe699]

Just to clarify what I'm doing: The new brass is going to be loaded in my Tikka bolt action 30-06. (My Garand will get my R-P and FC I already have) I'm not competition shooting, but I want to learn how to make really accurate flat shooting ammo for my rifle. I hunt deer, moose and bear, and target shoot in my back yard (out on the farm )My theory is that my '06 loaded with really good handloads is better than my buddies' Magnums with crappy factory rounds.

 

[USSR]

Rob,

If you want to shoot 168's, get a .308. I shoot at 1,000 yards, and the 190SMK with it's much higher BC is the only way to go for LR in an '06.

Is using the OAL length guage more accurate than seating the bullet a little at a time until the bolt just closes? The bullet comparators you speak of allow you to take OAL measurement to the bullet ogive, right?

An OAL Guage puts your bullet in the exact position in the case at which the bullet ogive contacts the leade. By then using the comparator on the bullet with the bullet at that seating depth, you then measure from the base of the cartridge case to the ogive. You then set up your seating die to have it seat the bullets to .010 shorter than the previously measured case if you want to be .010 off of the leade. Much easier than frogging around with seating the bullet at different depths until you get it right, and then, how far are you off the leade? The OAL length of the cartridge (case base to bullet tip) is meaningless in an '06, since you have a long action and there are no magazine length constraints.

Don

 

[hagar]

Agree on the 168. It's a 300 yard bullet. Either the 155 AMax or Sierra will outshoot it by far, and the 175 Sierra or 178 Hornady by a whole bunch.

 

[stovepipe699]

So in my 30-06 the 190 SMK is best for long range. Do they drop less way out there? I used to think there was something special about 165-168 grain bullets in 30 cal. It must have been a mixup between .308cal and 308 win. So, would a 190 boat-tail hunting bullet (gameking or hdy sp) also be the ticket for long range hunting? I take your word that an OAL guage is the way to go, but I've never used one and don't completely get how it works. I got a Lyman flash hole burr removing tool for Christmas and understand it's purpose. I also got a flash hole cleaner(figured it couldn't hurt). Does a primer pocket uniformer make them all the same depth? Thanks again for answering all my questions!
Rob

 

[USSR]

Rob,

Yeah, the 190's drop way less. With LR shooting, it's all about the BC of the bullet and the velocity you are driving it at. When you are shooting a .308 Win, 168-175gr bullets make sense, since you don't have enough case capacity to drive heavier bullets at a decent velocity. With an '06, you've got alot more case capacity that is well suited to large amounts of slow burning powder and heavier bullets. I think Speer makes a 190gr hunting bullet, but there are alot of 180gr hunting bullets that would work as well.

Does a primer pocket uniformer make them all the same depth?

Yes.

I take your word that an OAL guage is the way to go, but I've never used one and don't completely get how it works.

Order it, and I think it will be obvious to you once you see it. You will also need to order a Stoney Point modified case in .30-06 (about $5).

Don

 

[stovepipe699]

Modified case. Now it makes sense. Anyway, I think that answers pretty much all my questions. Now I need to go buy some toys!!