Larry Pratt - "What Went Wrong At Columbine

[Coronach]

I don't think that either of us are trying to have it both ways. I also dont think that either of us are saying that the departments could not have done better...but the area where they could have done better was on the preparation side, not once the bodies started hitting the floor.

But remember, training regular officers to do such things, and giving them the tools to do it, is oft dismissed as "militarization of the police." In the same vein, as soon as someone mentions that Smallville, USA has a SWAT team (in order to ensure rapid, timely response), the first question asked is "why do they need such a thing?"

So, we don't want the cops to prepare for these eventualities, but we're perfectly willing to demand that they formulate a plan that will work when the unthinkable happens. Well, THAT is a recipe for disaster. The battle for Columbine was lost, but it was lost months before Harris and Klebold left for school that day.

Mike

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Not trying to defend the LEOs, but...

SWAT teams have a minimum response time of 45-60 minutes, depending on the team, where they are coming from and where they need to respond to. Thats a minimum time.

It's not just a matter of SWAT getting to the scene. Once there, they do not form up and charge into the building. They deploy their sniper for long distance visual information. They send up scouts to gather information. They interview all of the witnesses for more information. All of this is processed by the senior officers who then determine the game plan.

The SOP is based on confronting a barricaded gunman, possibly holding hostages. In 99.99% of their calls, that's what they encounter. Given their training and SOPs were based on that, 3 hours isn't an unrealistic amount of time before entering.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Do any schools actually have armed teachers?

I could be mistaken, but I believe teachers in Utah can now legally carry concealed firearms.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

You would be right. CCW into schools in Utah. No problem. I do not know of any that are armed, but then they are concealed!

 

[Matt G]

When Columbine first occured, I was furious about what I perceived as the cowardice of the first responding cops, even though I, too, had gone through the pre-Columbine police academy doctrine of training that said "Secure and hold for SWAT."

Later, I got some more of the word about how it went on. I still would find it hard not to go in, but here's the thing about a crisis: one person is in charge of the crisis scene. To make your plan work, you have to follow the directions of the Crisis Scene Manager/Commander. (Gone toward "managers" now, because one school of though puts the initial first responder in charge of the scene, with the assumption that he has the best picture of what's going on. Thus your first year rookie may well be telling a lieutenant or deputy chief what to do.) Allow multiple good-hearted cops with good intentions to go charging into a maze-like large school building individually, and you're asking for trouble, possibly re-arming your BG's. That was the view at the time, and still, to a certain extent, is actually true. Without getting specific about modern tactics, I can say that this is now addressed.

Coronach is right: the new plan is certainly "exhilerating," but will it be perceived as the better way, if (when) it finally gets implemented by a suburban community's P.D.? Time will tell. Doubtful it will be worse than the Columbine "solution".

Coronach is also right again, that cops constantly walk the line between "you should have prepared for such an exigency!" and "why in the world do you need rifles? Why do you need to train like that?!? You're cops, not soldiers!" Truth is, your average infantry platoon could probably do a far superior job to clearing a building than a group of street cops who may or may not have military experience, and who might, in a proactive department, practice such excercises once a year.