Laser surgery & shooting

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tuckerdog1

tuckerdog1

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I posted this on another forum, but thought I'd ask it here as well.

Several years ago, I had laser surgery for vision correction. I'm sure over the years, the surgery has probably improved. But wanted to share my situation and ask how others that have had the surgery have fared.
My Dr. offered three options. Excellent vision up close, but I'd need glasses for distance. Option two was the opposite, Excellent at distance, lousy up close & needing glasses for that. Or option three a blended correction. One eye not quite perfect for close, and the other not quite perfect for distance. But an overall improvement for both situations. I went option three. It took some time to adjust, and it's much better than when I was wearing glasses. But, some things are not quite right. An example is when I open my gun safe. If I use reading glasses to see the dial, I line the digits up perfectly & the safe opens. If I do it without the glasses, the safe won't open. I've learned that if I position the combo to what appears to be a full digit off ( when not using glasses ), the safe opens. This same problem is magnified at the range. Because the correction was a compromise, the target is never in a clear focus. And I'm always having to adjust to what appears to be an on target aim, but is actually an aim that is off to one side.

Tuckerdog1
 
I think your experiencing parralax(sp?) error because your using one eye for what your brain thinks is a 2 eye operation if that makes sense. Have you tried shooting with just one eye open? If that doesn't work maybe scopes or different types of sights are the way to go, perhaps ghost ring? Good luck
 
Which eye is which, Tuckerdog? Even with perfect vision in the dominant eye, the target isn't supposed to be clear, because you are supposed to be focused on the front sight. Even when we shoot with both eyes open (which isn't really natural, the natural tendency is to close the offside eye), you are really only using the eye that lines up the sights. Your brain is telling itself to ignore the input from the other eye.
 
they said i might have that problem if i get the surgery done again. i got zyoptic surgery last summer (im 21) and it took a few months for my eyes to calm down and really focus in. once they did though its really been a significant improvement. if anyone is in the CNY or upstate NY area and considering the surgery, pm me and i'll get you my dr's info. he did a great job. i went from neg 5.5 in each eye with astigmatism to 20/20- in each eye
 
i went from neg 5.5 in each eye with astigmatism to 20/20- in each eye
Click to expand...
Huh?????????

I'm not trying to trip you up here, please understand. I need to know because I may be interested in this procedure. But ... aren't you comparing apples to oranges here? How does negative 5.5 (which means what, diopters?) relate to 20/20, which is a scale of visual acuity? On the standard 20-foot scale, what was your vision like prior to the procedure? (As in 20/30, 2/40, 20/200, ...?)

Basically, the two pieces of information you presented don't tell me anything about how much your vision improved.
 
Dear Hawkmoon


My wife had -5.5 astigmatism. Her glasses were the "coke bottle" type. Uncorrected vision was always blurry. It does not compute on the 20/20 scale. What someone with 20/20 can read at 200 feet, say a Interstate sign, she could see, but not read at 20 feet. You might say she had 20/200, which is legally blind but that is not correct either.

Also, she was afraid of heights. Four years after her Lasik, she can climb into a tree stand.
 
Quote:
i went from neg 5.5 in each eye with astigmatism to 20/20- in each eye

Huh?????????

I'm not trying to trip you up here, please understand. I need to know because I may be interested in this procedure. But ... aren't you comparing apples to oranges here? How does negative 5.5 (which means what, diopters?) relate to 20/20, which is a scale of visual acuity? On the standard 20-foot scale, what was your vision like prior to the procedure? (As in 20/30, 2/40, 20/200, ...?)

Basically, the two pieces of information you presented don't tell me anything about how much your vision improved.
Click to expand...

No, it is not really apples to oranges. He is saying that it used to take -5.5 in front of each eye, plus whatever amount of correction for astigmatism, to achieve the best vision possible for him, which was presumably 20/20 or 20/15 or something like that. Now it takes no correction at all to achieve 20/20. That's a difference of 5.5 diopters, plus whatever astigmatism correction he used to require.

BTW, his vision probably used to be 20/400 in each eye, although many testing agencies would report it as 20/200, because that's how far their charts go, or because they have no need to differentiate between poor and poorer, particularly for those whose vision is easily correctible with lenses.
 
Dear Hawkmoon, I had the surgery almost a year ago. I don't remember my exact prescription but it was pretty crummy. I had a high astigmatism and was very near sighted. Without my glasses I couldn't drive, read a street sign, etc. I got it done because I knew I was very vulnerable in that I was pretty helpless without my glasses. They (Kremer) measured my eyes several times and told me that I was a candidate for Lasik but that I was close to the edge of what they could correct so that there was a good chance I'd need a touch up. I'm getting that touch up in about 4 months. I'm now 20/25, my day vision is very good. My night vision has a lot of halo but that normal for me since I was a child. If you have any personnal questions about the surgery feel free to send me a private message.

On a personal note, I sold all my milsurp rifles about 10 years ago because I couldn't shoot them anymore. Now I can get back to that as well as things like snorkeling, etc. I love the results of my surgery.:)
 
My wife works at a laser surgery clinic and her best friend is the eye doctor. If you have specific questions, list as many details as possible and I'll have her find out

I do know that they do the close/far thing. Each eye is right 1/2 the time. Never really right, but better than it was before and no glasses. Far sighted in one eye and near sighted in the other. Messes with parallax and depth perception
 
My eyes are also in the -5.5, -6.0 range. With an astigmatism too.

This equals about 20/800 vision, uncorrected.

In short, what a person with normal vision can see at 800 feet, I have to have at 20.

Oh, and the astigmatism causes double vision. Out of ONE eye. ( because of the "warp" in the lens, there's two images focused on the retina. )

So, with this condition, I actually see triple, when I drink too much and don't have my contacts in or glasses on. But only if whatever I'm looking at is REALLY close. :p


J.C.
 
sorry for presenting my info awkwardly, but i didnt know what i was on the 20/xx chart, i had to be pointed at it before i had my correction done so i really couldnt tell ya:neener:

see the big E? i'd be happy to distinguish where the chart started. my father is legally blind in one eye, and i think he's neg 10+ overall. pretty much his left eye is good for telling light and dark and blotches of color, so good eye sight isn't really all that prevelent in my family :)
 
RE: laser surgery and shooting.

My Doctor never even suggested such a possibility as a dual distance correction, but my surgery was more than a few years ago. Without trying to quote the entire thread, my vision was in the -8.5/-8.7 range with a boatload of astigmatism. Doc stopped even quoting the 20/800+ comparison when it became meaningless. I once answered the question, “Can you read the bottom line of the eye chart?” by responding “what eye chart!”

I enjoyed 20/15 vision for about six weeks and began a steady decline of –1diopter over the next 12 weeks. An enhancement was preformed and I have enjoyed years of freedom from glasses. I am now sitting at -.25/-.38 and astigmatism is creeping back in; after six years my eyes have still not recovered from the “star vision” effect, or halo, with lights at night. I live with a chronic case of “dry” eye and no amount of lubricating drops seem to help. Driving at night is a real challenge; glasses are required.

Back to Tuckerdog’s post: I use an RCBS dial caliper to measure powder and have become obsessed with double and triple checks for charge weights. I have the same problem with lining up tiny white lines on dark backgrounds. Without reading glasses, I can’t even see the lines on the caliper. I can see gun sights just fine but will admit the target seems awfully blurry compared to what I could see with glasses. The reading glasses make me dizzy after a while; vision has become a compromise for me.

Mooseman’s post rings very true for me; I couldn’t safely walk down the street without glasses, that’s helpless. While the surgery has been a life changing experience, it has also brought new concerns. My corneas may now be to thin have another enhancement; my Doctor will not even discuss it until I reach a –1diopter and the astigmatism gives me a nice double vision effect which can only be overcome with corrective lenses. When my wife comments on the beautiful full moon all I can do is agree, because it’s just a blur to me.

I had the surgery on a Thursday, late morning. I walked into the room nearly blind and a half hour later could read the face of a clock about a foot in diameter from across the room; it was the only visible object. The room was completely blacked out for the surgeon. The assistants placed a set of aluminum blinders on me, the blinders are perforated to allow vision with a minimum of light penetration; I still have them as a memento. The next morning was “trash” day; I nearly caused an accident in front of the house hauling the cans to the curb while being blinded with a mask.

If anyone is considering this surgery, be aware that it is NOT a perfect process and it may have complications that cannot be predicted. I had to sign a disclosure and “hold harmless” to that effect before the surgeon would even touch me. There is even the possibility of being rendered blind by the surgery. Dad offered to cut off the surgeons “bits” and shove them up his @$$ if that happened, I thanked him and mentioned the hold harmless.

If you have questions, I can be reached at [email protected].
Mike


}:)>
 
I had LASIK about 4 years ago and it was by far the best thing I've ever done. I don't have any issues / halos with my eyes at all. And, I have better than 20/20 vision now. I highly recommend it.. One thing that is interesting to note is that when I went to get it done, the clinic was turning a lot of people away telling them it was not a good idea for them.
 
about halos:

i had them when i had glasses, i still have them now, there severity has not hindered me in anyway. my eyes are slightly dry, but for some people that lasts up to a year so i just hit em with drops about 2x a day, not really a problem for me
 
I wore glasses or contacts for 42 years. I had lasik about 5 years ago and I love it. I had gotten to a point where I could not wear contacts more than about 8 hours which was totally unreasonable for a normal day period. I wore glasses - $500 glasses: extra thin plastic, special coatings, etc. Just so I would not be carrying an extra 5 pounds on my nose.
I was at the edge of being lasik able. Fortunately the doctor in Houston is one of the preeminent ones in the nation.
I had my eyes cut with mono-vision. right eye distant and left eye semi-close. I sit at a computer and did not want to have issues there. And it works very well. Reading requires drug store reading glasses when dark, very small print or lying in bed. If I am sitting, I can keep the book just far enough away to read. Of course, the reading thing is presbyopia and comes to all of us when we got older.
I have night time glasses that pull bothe eyes to 20/15 for driving. I can drive and recognize things but signs have to be real close to read properly at night.
Unfortunately, for a lot of reasons, I and right handed and basically left eye dominent. Makes shooting a rifle interesting. Plus on a pistol, the distance eye has a harder time focusing on the front sight. I shot basically with both eyes open - a good thing. I also shoot almost as well left handed; that is probably the eye thing as well as a lot of practice.
I will tell you, I WOULD NOT TRADE MY LASIK FOR GLASSES ANY DAY, ANY WAY.
it is lovely to get up in the middle of the night and see the clock face.
oh, BTW, my focal distance before lasik, without glasses was about 2.5 - 3 inches. Put you hand that far from your face. Of course, it made it really easy to find bad solder joints on electronics then.
I have reading glasses everywhere so that when I need them, I have them
Enough rambling
thanks
 
My wife was so nearsighted she couldn't read without her glasses. Not farsighted. Nearsighted. She had LASIK a couple years ago, and it changed her life. Now she can drive, read and shoot without any correction, and more accurately since the thickness of her glasses caused all sorts of aberrations when the point of view wasn't directly in front of her.
 
LASIK has also changed my life. I'll just post results and not go into details unless anyone wants them (price, location, procedure, byproducts, etc). Anyway, I would test at 20/400 on a good day before the procedure. Now i'm 20/10 in both eyes. Better than perfect if I dare say :D

PM if anyone wants to talk about it. Suffice to say I asked my doctor extensively about shooting beforehand and he told me that this would make my life a lot easier for outdoor life in general. Ask me about not having my glasses fog up on a cold NY winter day!!!
 
I'd still do it over

Before the surgery, I was lost without my glasses. Couldn't cross a room without bumping into something. So forget reading a clock or the channel on the cable box without the glasses. This weirdness with lining things up was just unexpected, and is a pain to adjust to. But in the larger scheme of things, the surgery is thumbs up.

Tuckerdog1
 
Best money I ever spent on anything.

LASIK is a gamble, and will only correct so much, but for anyone who is a candidate I recommend it.

The ability to see pistol sights at 3AM without fumbling for glasses is a wonderful thing.;)
 
Lasik monovision

Had Lasik done last week - Monovision also. I'm having some blurriness and depth perception issues with the monovision, but it is slowly getting better. I hope the Monovision works out as I could not see the end of my nose before without glasses. I sometimes think I may have made the wrong choice to tty the monovision, but I hate the idea of wearing reading glasses - Lasik was my way out of glasses in the first place. I was basically blind without my glasses before and for the first time in over 30 years I can see just how dirty our shower floor is! Wow. How long did it take to get used to the monovision?

I have noticed myself tilting my head to the right to read things really close up - my left eye is my 'close-up' eye. Have you tried that while opening the safe?

My right eye is still good enough to see the sights clearly and I shoot with both eyes open anyway. I hope the monovision does not require that I close one eye as it took me about a year of solid shooting to learn to keep both eyes open!
 
Instead of Lasik...

Hello,

As a current eyeglass wearer with very bad nearsightedness I definitely feel this thread but wanted to make you folks who might be considering having Lasik done for the first time or again about another option. There is an implant called an Implantable Collamer Lens or ICL that was just recently ok'd by the FDA and is, in my opinion, a much better option than Lasik. Essentially a lens made out of collamer is placed behind the natural lens of your eye to correct your vision, the sweet part is that unlike Lasik there is no removal of tissue so it is not only reversible but if your vision needs to be corrected again later on in life they can pop out the old ICL and put in a new one. This is especially a boon to folks like me who's vision is beyond being fixed by Lasik.

Before you get Lasik please look into the idea of an ICL, I think it will blow Lasik out of the water once more folks hear about it and have it done.
 
The Thing That Gets Me....

..... is that of all the eye care professionals that I've had experience with in my life(only 48 years young, plus few months:D ), I have yet to come across any(and by that I mean absolutely none) that have had any of the laser eye procedures performed on themselves.

Now, while I'll admit that I did not inquire of any of them as to why they didn't opt for such, none of them volunteered any personal observations when I inquired as to the procedure. BTW, that would be a total of five professionals(two in one combined office). Those observations alone made me rethink the issue. For comparison, several(three of the 5 actually) were contact users.

Don't get the wrong read from this post, I'm not calling the profession down. For me, I'll just wait a bit more and do some more research on not only the currently available procedures but also the newer techniques. We're only born with one pair and they can't do complete eye transplants(yet).
 
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no joke

I only have one set of eyes, and my brother's PRK experience in 2001 swore me off any "zap" surgery. Luckily he was able to get "fixed.":uhoh:

When there are >5 years of experience with the ICL, I will see about having that done.

K-Romulus
Coke-Bottle wearer
 
I had Lasik 4 years ago, and I feel like I've been born again (not in the religious sense). I wore glasses for 33 years years, working my way up to -7.5 diopters of correction. 20/a million vision. My nose would feel like somebody was squeezing it with a pair of pliers.

Now I'm 20/30, and I can drive, read, and shoot without glasses. I have a pair of glasses to get me to 20/20. I mostly wear them watching tv or movies. I do wear them for iron-sighted rifles. Pistols or scoped rifles I wear plain safety glasses.

Since I'm still slightly nearsighted, I can still see close. The surgeon said he could do a touch up, and get me to 20/20, but it would be more likely that I would need reading glasses. So I choose to stay this way.

It took 5 days for my eyes to heal from the operation, but I would still do it again. If someday my eyes regress to what they were before, then it was still worth it to not wear glasses for whatever time I get.
 
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