Lasers at the range...too old school?

[9mm+]

I recently bought a LaserLyte for my SA XD-40 (combo laser and flashlight) and took it to the range to calibrate it. I liked it okay and shot reasonably well with it, but I certainly didn't shoot tighter groups over the iron sights. I bought mine used and didn't pay a lot for it, but considering that some of these units run $$$$, I was wondering about the whole utility of using these laser sights.

I did find the flashlight rather useful, but then I started to wonder about its real-world application, too. Would I want to announce to the BG that I was coming down the hall with my big flashlight leading the way? That might set me up for an ambush. Turning on the flashlight at the last minute for sight acquisition is pretty useful, but that's about it (unless I am missing something).

Back to the laser for a minute. Unquestionably, the laser does have a great deterent function. A BG seeing the laser come across the room surely would wet his/her pants fast. Other than that, I don't see any major advantage on sighting in unless I was forced to draw the pistol off-axis and couldn't line up with my eye.

Some of these laser units cost almost as much than the firearms themselves. I am not adverse to learning new things, but I can't see what the major advantages of this setup are in *real life situations*.

Maybe I am just too "old school"?

 

[ArmedBear]

I've seen a guy with a tiny pocket pistol, shooting 2" groups from the hip at about 10 yards using a laser.

I think the laser does serve a purpose.

That said, I don't currently own any.

 

[shotgunjoel]

They are thought to be faster than irons.

 

[rcmodel]

You can miss just as easily with a laser as with iron sights.
A bad shot is a bad shot, no matter how you sight it on the target.

The laser is an excellnt training tool to show you how much you jerk the trigger or flench.

The flashlight should only be used in short bursts to ID a target.
Not turned on in the bedroom and left on while you blunder down the hall.

rc

 

[kingpin008]

A BG seeing the laser come across the room surely would wet his/her pants fast.

This, along with the old "just the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare a badguy away" chestnut need to be discarded from our way of thinking about the tactics and equipment we use for self defense.

They're false, and create dangerous assumptions that could very easily get someone hurt. What happens if the badguy is too doped up, hard-of-hearing, or just plain violent and set on mayhem to give a crap how many shotguns are racked or fancy lasers are pointed at them?

Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but it's a serious pet peeve of mine and I had to vent a little. </soapbox>

 

[rcmodel]

I have a color-blind buddy that simply can't see a red laser dot or red-dot sight reticule.

Don't meet a crack-head with his affliction and expect him to drop his load at the sight!

rc

 

[edSky]

I used to think the would be useful. Most gun store owners, who would profit from selling them, have told me to stay away from lasers. They do make target acquisition easier - and you'd be the target.

I've only seen one guy at the public range here with one and he was telling everyone how great it was. When I was leaving I took a look at his target and was glad he had his ear protection on so he didn't hear me laugh. You would think it would be easy to see the dot and shoot, huh? My wife says I'm too critical.

 

[COMPNOR]

Like anything, they have their uses. You'll find those who swear by them, and those who snear at them. Its just another tool though. And if you don't learn to use it properly, its not going to do you any good.

 

[Sam1911]

They are thought to be faster than irons.

Only by those who haven't used them or practiced enough with a handgun to know the difference. Watching shooters peer over their sights while they try to follow the bouncing dot is a funny, and common, occurrence. With training, you can learn to shoot well with a laser. With training, iron sights are still MUCH faster.

The laser is an excellent training tool to show you how much you jerk the trigger or flench.

Amen to that!

-Sam

 

[GRIZ22]

This, along with the old "just the sound of a shotgun being racked will scare a badguy away" chestnut need to be discarded from our way of thinking about the tactics and equipment we use for self defense.



This is true. I know of an incident where the good guy in the dark racked the shotgun and the bad guy fired at the sound. Fortunately the final outcome was good.

The same can hold true for a laser.

 

[9mm+]

@Kingpin -- I would never rely on the deterent function alone. If I am sweeping the house looking for BG's, I fully intend to shoot if necessary. There's no question there. If (a big IF since I am not convinced of the efficacy of the laser) I decide to turn it on, it won't be until I'm ready to fire. Like the flashlight, there's no need to announce your arrival beforehand. If the BG is not high or color blind or just plain stupid, it does give him/her a very quick opportunity to capitulate, but again I would never rely on this alone.

 

[archie bunker]

9mm+,
i feel the same way you do. everything you said i agree with. ive never said anything to anyone because i thought it was just me. thanks for posting.

 

[9mm+]

@Archie -- thanks...I thought it was just me, too. Glad to hear that others feel the same way. We're not insane afterall...

 

[DammitBoy]

I like the green laser over the red laser. I can see it farther and it is bright enough to see in daylight.

 

[21bubba]

I'm here for the popcorn.

I own a laser sighted J- frame and love it.

 

[CoRoMo]

It's an accessory to the tool.

The tool comes in third in order of importance.

Thinking, Training, Tooling.

 

[highorder]

I have a color-blind buddy that simply can't see a red laser dot or red-dot sight reticle.

beat me to it!

 

[Jamie C.]

A BG seeing the laser come across the room surely would wet his/her pants fast.

Having already been 'round and 'round on one laser sight thread, I'm not gonna waste too much time here. Especially after so many others have already pretty much covered all that needs to be said.

However, there is one thing I'd like to point out:
If you have time to intimidate someone, they have plenty of time to kill you.


J.C.

 

[Templar223]

They are thought to be faster than irons.

LOL! Who "thinks" that?

OP, on lasers: Too often, people try to "buy" skills through hardware, when the only way to learn and develop skills is from training and practice. In my experience, people with lasers spend precious time trying to see that laser dot when they should instead be squeezing the trigger after having acquired an approximate sight picture through good technique and muscle memory (without even thinking about it).

Yes, lasers can be expensive... $300 or more.

You could pay tuition and ammo for a good entry level handgun course for that sort of money and come away a MUCH better shooter than dropping Ben Franklins on a battery-powered device attached to your safety rescue tool.

But then again, training requires time, energy and some degree of dedication. Laying down the VISA card at the fun shop is so much easier for the lazy couch commandos.

John

 

[9mm+]

@Templar -- As human nature goes, many do think that new widgets will make up for lack of practice. If you're sending 1,000 rounds down range a month, a laser is not going to make a big difference, which is my conclusion.

 

[kda]

Write to Crimson Trace for their free CD. View it. Until you have actually done that much, don't be in a rush to make up your mind. It sure opened my eyes. At the very least be open minded enough to get the free CD and watch it.

It is NOT macho to laugh away and thus dismiss new ideas while blustering away in complete ignorance. Inform yourselves. Then speak.

For example when I grip my pistol(s) and revolvers, the laser turns on ... BUT with my finger pointing forward past the trigger, it easily blocks the laser so that it is not visible to the BG. Only when my finger goes I the trigger guard does the laser shine forward. It is all shown on the CD, along with a lot of other useful information you from which you might benefit. Might even save your life.

I do NOT work for Crimson Trace nor benefit from encouraging people to learn about laser sights before dismissing them off-hand. Like most of you, I am just trying to help fellow members of this sight.

 

[Zach S]

The laser is an excellnt training tool to show you how much you jerk the trigger or flench.

The flashlight should only be used in short bursts to ID a target.
Not turned on in the bedroom and left on while you blunder down the hall.

Agreed.

I dont have a laser on anything, but have thought about one for my rimfire 1911, just for kicks.

Weaponlights aren't "flashlights," and shouldn't be used as such.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Lasers at the range...too old school?

I would suspect I could be called "old school" to. I started shooting in the 1950's.
But I'm flexable enough to give something new a try.
I've been big into lasers for several years now. I average practicing with them about three evenings a week (home range).
Because of hands on use I've arrived at the point that EVERY gun I think of as a defense gun is equipped with a (good) laser or laser/light. I honestly do not know how many Crimson Trace and Streamlight laser lights I own.


The biggest problems with lasers is people trying them when they don't know what in the heck they are doing. They often can't shoot well with the laser, so they decide the gun mounted laser is a poor system.
Most of what people know about the use of the laser they learned from the movies, which is almost totally wrong.


I have a bunch of stories of people doing very well with the laser, along with pictures of laser targets that couldn't be duplicated by most people without using a laser.
But frankly I get tired of going over and over the same stuff.
So, if you intend trying the laser try and learn how to correctly use it.
Did you learn to use iron sights in a couple range sessions? You aren't going to learn to correctly use a laser in a couple range sessions either, especially if the one trying to teach you doesn't know what they are doing either.



OK, two pictures.
Do this without a laser, in low light, weak hand, from the hip, shooting as fast as you can reload, and you can be confident that you probably don't need a laser.


Ask your female friend to shoot the gun out of the BG's hand, on her THIRD time ever shooting a handgun, at 10 yards, point shooting and if she can do this without using a laser, she doesn't need a laser.

 

[ArmedBear]

That's the key: from the hip.

I shoot a little Bullseye, score in the top group at some after-work local pistol leagues I shoot in the Winter, and like to shoot my .44 at 100 yard targets. Maybe I'll hunt with it, at some point, too.

BUT... I do all of that with the gun in front of my eyes. I can hit a quarter with a pistol at 25 yards, with some semblance of consistency. BUT NOT FROM THE HIP!

Yes, the CFDA guys can shoot from the hip, fast, and hit steel plates. But even they can't do what the target above shows.

With a laser, you can.

I do agree: if you use a laser to shoot the gun from a regular Weaver stance, the laser is at best, a waste, and generally a detriment.

But that's not what it's for.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

They have some uses. You don't need to have your sights aligned with your eyes to hit as you can just look for the red dot. Could happen if you are in a weird position behind cover/concealment trying to minimize exposure.

I don't buy the whole scare the bad guy thing with either the laser or the shotgun rack sound. Actually, I'd want my shotgun already racked so that I don't give my position away. Bad guys don't have to worry about backstops and target identification. In general, we are at a huge disadvantage during a home robbery. The only minial things we have going for us is stealth and knowledge of our home layout. Awerbuck's recent commentary in SWAT discusses how bad guys amigilida's are like 20% smaller than ours so they simply are not as afraid. Also, they could be jacked up on drugs and adrelin.