law-abiding illegal immigrants
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River Wraith
Member
I don't think it's possible to be a law abiding illegal alien.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Aw, c'mon, now. Most working-type wets are peaceable folks. They want to find work and keep their jobs and send money home to their families. Most of them are pretty good people.
But you're not gonna find 11 million citizens that are 100% Simon-pure in their behavior...
(Yes, I know. They broke the law to get here. What's being said is that after that one event, they're mostly peaceful folks.)
, Art
But you're not gonna find 11 million citizens that are 100% Simon-pure in their behavior...
(Yes, I know. They broke the law to get here. What's being said is that after that one event, they're mostly peaceful folks.)
, ArtBrett Bellmore
Member
They're also breaking the law by staying here. Nope, there's no such thing as a "law abiding illegal immigrant". Though there might be a fair number of otherwise law abiding illegal immigrants, I wouldn't even bet on that; They've already established that they're willing to break the law, in a pretty big and deliberate way. Breaking other laws, too, isn't a very big step.
El Tejon
Member
You mean like "law-abiding gun owners" in D.C.?
Illegal aliens can become legal. It's done everyday.
Illegal aliens can become legal. It's done everyday.
trapperjohn
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how about "law abiding speeder"? I mean geez, if we were really law abiding we would never ever go over the speed limit, or have a rolling stop.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Nope. Each one is a felon.
beerslurpy
member
If illegal immigrants were law-abiding, they would still be on the waiting list to get a work visa. Just like all the programmers, electrical engineers, chemists and biologists who want to work in this country.
Someone whose primary skill is "manual labor" will NEVER qualify for a work visa. The only way they are of any use is if they work for a below-living wage and then depart the country to spend the money in mexico. If they were permanent citizens, they would represent an enormous strain on the country's economy and social systems, not to mention greatly swelling the ranks of violent criminals.
Someone whose primary skill is "manual labor" will NEVER qualify for a work visa. The only way they are of any use is if they work for a below-living wage and then depart the country to spend the money in mexico. If they were permanent citizens, they would represent an enormous strain on the country's economy and social systems, not to mention greatly swelling the ranks of violent criminals.
obiwan1
Member
What we're saving in cheap labor we're paying in property/income/state/sales taxes that feed/educate/medicate these people.
beerslurpy
member
It is ultimately a wealth transfer from you and me into the pockets of walmart and a few large argricultural/livestock businesses. Dont lose sight of this.
OTOH, we're also getting a massive windfall in terms of unclaimed social security revenue. Assuming, of course, that it remains unclaimed. Better believe that those taxes are taken out, as comparatively few of the jobs are sub rosa, at least this far north.
Here's the question I have always wanted to be answered by the civil libertarians who are also "deport all the illegals" proponents:
How does one determine that an individual is an illegal immigrant, once they have made it across the border? "Papers, bitte"? Americans are not required to have a state or federal ID card. They are not required to carry their SS card or birth certificate around with them. There are lots of american citizens who are brown and speak spanish, who look exactly like a heck of a lot of illegal immigrants who are brown and speak spanish. Are we suggesting that we should have to prove our identity and bona fides in situations in which there is not PC to think we have committed a crime? (and believe me, "walking while mexican" is not going to be PC for anything, nor should it be)
Papers, bitte.
Mike
Better believe that those taxes are taken out, as comparatively few of the jobs are sub rosa, at least this far north.Here's the question I have always wanted to be answered by the civil libertarians who are also "deport all the illegals" proponents:
How does one determine that an individual is an illegal immigrant, once they have made it across the border? "Papers, bitte"? Americans are not required to have a state or federal ID card. They are not required to carry their SS card or birth certificate around with them. There are lots of american citizens who are brown and speak spanish, who look exactly like a heck of a lot of illegal immigrants who are brown and speak spanish. Are we suggesting that we should have to prove our identity and bona fides in situations in which there is not PC to think we have committed a crime? (and believe me, "walking while mexican" is not going to be PC for anything, nor should it be)
Papers, bitte.
Mike
Ironworker
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"law-abiding illegal immigrants"
See also: oxymoron, malapropism
See also: oxymoron, malapropism
Preacherman
Member
Speaking as a legal immigrant, having had to jump through INS hoops (for many years, and at considerable expense) to get here, I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for illegal immigrants. The opportunity to immigrate is readily available, albeit with many delays and much bureaucracy through which to wade. Those who do this tend to be pretty solid citizens, IMHO, who will contribute much to the USA and carry their own weight. I'm afraid that I regard those who skip the whole procedure as cheating this country, avoiding all the background checks and investigations, costing this country untold billions in medical and other expenses, and also cheating legal immigrants and citizens out of work, taxes, etc.
Seal the borders and deport those illegals already here, say I. If there is an economic need for them (which can only be identified after they've gone, can't it?), then go with a "guest worker" program such as President Bush has proposed. Tax their earnings, charge them for the services they use, and make them legal and productive members of society - then I shall have no problem with their presence.
Seal the borders and deport those illegals already here, say I. If there is an economic need for them (which can only be identified after they've gone, can't it?), then go with a "guest worker" program such as President Bush has proposed. Tax their earnings, charge them for the services they use, and make them legal and productive members of society - then I shall have no problem with their presence.
Yes, I can easily believe that 1/4 of the jail populations in CA are illegal immigrants. So? Once they're identified as illegal immigrants, they're not eligible for bond, and are held until they can be deported. Occasionally they are first convicted before being deported, and even more occasionally, they are convicted, serve their sentences and are then deported. It's pretty hard to find a magistrate who will bond out an undocumented alien, though. Even those that might have bond set will often sit it out, figuring that it's better not to spend their family's money on bond and fine etc. After all, a lot of the guys we're talking about are day laborers.
But just so we're clear: a large portion of the people in jail (as opposed to prison) haven't been convicted of any crime-- they're just awaiting trial or other disposition. Here in N. TX, a fair portion of the illegal aliens are arrested for minor traffic offenses, usually which arise from their undocumented status. They'll drive a car (we have no public transportation outside of the big cities here) and get stopped for whatever reason, and because they have no D.L. and no insurance or proof that they own the car that they bought for cash, they are arrested instanter for offenses that you or I would get citations for. (The cop can't very well take a traffic offender's signature as bond that the offender will come to court, when he can't even affirmatively identify the driver or know where the driver lives.) So if you look at the rosters of jail occupants in the PreTrial Facility in the county that I'm familiar with, you see among the hispanic names a lot of charges like: "No D.L., FTMFR [Fail To Maintain Financial Responsibility], ICE/INS Hold--No Bond"
Ezekiel
Member
Only if this is carried retroactively to 1492. Anything else is self-serving and hypocritical.
Oh yeah, the use of the term "wet" to describe people previously in this passage was heinous, unless I can start dropping "N-bombs" and "kike" with impunity.
Another triumph of our open borders
My little area is becoming overrun with illegal aliens - excuse me, brave entrepreneurs seeking to make their way in the wonderful world of El Norte - particularly from a very large country in South America. One such ex-denizen of the Amazonian basin snuck over our border with Mexico and wended her way here. Lucky us.
In a scant 10 days, she managed to acquire access to a car (I said nothing about a drivers license, mind you), which which she ran over and killed a policeman directing traffic. Stellar assimilation.
Now before you all get upset, remember that she is filling jobs Americans alleged won't take, and enriching our culture with hers, including a novel approach to driving and refreshing attitude towards the Rules of the Road.
We don't know what else she has infused our society with - yet. Being illegal, she was never checked for criminal records, infectious diseases or tainted produce.
My little area is becoming overrun with illegal aliens - excuse me, brave entrepreneurs seeking to make their way in the wonderful world of El Norte - particularly from a very large country in South America. One such ex-denizen of the Amazonian basin snuck over our border with Mexico and wended her way here. Lucky us.
In a scant 10 days, she managed to acquire access to a car (I said nothing about a drivers license, mind you), which which she ran over and killed a policeman directing traffic. Stellar assimilation.
Now before you all get upset, remember that she is filling jobs Americans alleged won't take, and enriching our culture with hers, including a novel approach to driving and refreshing attitude towards the Rules of the Road.
We don't know what else she has infused our society with - yet. Being illegal, she was never checked for criminal records, infectious diseases or tainted produce.
Aguila Blanca
Member
At least we know why she didn't apply for a driver's license.
of course not law abiding...
but if Arkansas paid me 12 times the salary Missouri did and droves of people would give me a job, would I be the only one with briefcase and laptop on head crossing the river???
Especially when the only penalty for being caught would be being sent a couple of miles home right where I was too begin with?
but if Arkansas paid me 12 times the salary Missouri did and droves of people would give me a job, would I be the only one with briefcase and laptop on head crossing the river???
Especially when the only penalty for being caught would be being sent a couple of miles home right where I was too begin with?
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The vast majority freely admit where they were born, how they got here, why they're here, and why they haven't bothered to go back.
If rooting out the cancer of illegal aliens inconveniences the very few American citizens who speak only Spanish, that's just tough.
As it is Mexican gangs like MS13 and 18th Street know there is a segment of the population they can victimize at will with little chance of it being reported. These gangs are gaining new foot-holds in places they otherwise wouldn't mainly because of this. When this is becoming a problem even in lazy backwoods towns it's a huge problem everywhere. 
The flip side is that these folks think it's so much better here in the states versus Mexico that they're willing to tolerate these violent thugs as part of the price for living here.
Some think sending them back is the best answer. I tend to lean toward since we have the people let's take the real estate, too, and kick that SOB Vincent Fox into the unemployment line with Ol' Kofi.
The flip side is that these folks think it's so much better here in the states versus Mexico that they're willing to tolerate these violent thugs as part of the price for living here.
Some think sending them back is the best answer. I tend to lean toward since we have the people let's take the real estate, too, and kick that SOB Vincent Fox into the unemployment line with Ol' Kofi.
Too Many Choices!?
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Ezekiel,
The term,"wet"(however distateful) is a valid description of an illegal crosser of the Rio Grande, unlike,"kike", and ,"n bombs" which are clearly racist
! The connotation associated with,"wet back" is specifically tailored to be consistent with a person(of any nationality that crosses the border by a river illegally, black, white, cuban, or african; although we tend to focus on the largest groups being south americans and mexicans, IMHO).....People are too PC now a days and that is what is wrong with us...In this day and age we shouldn't paly the race card unless it is clearly a race issue which Arts',"term of art", doesn't even have racial undertones to it
The term,"wet"(however distateful) is a valid description of an illegal crosser of the Rio Grande, unlike,"kike", and ,"n bombs" which are clearly racist
! The connotation associated with,"wet back" is specifically tailored to be consistent with a person(of any nationality that crosses the border by a river illegally, black, white, cuban, or african; although we tend to focus on the largest groups being south americans and mexicans, IMHO).....People are too PC now a days and that is what is wrong with us...In this day and age we shouldn't paly the race card unless it is clearly a race issue which Arts',"term of art", doesn't even have racial undertones to it chaim
Member
Nevermind....on second thought I want to stay out of this one.
This is undeniably true. However, I think this is a product of the very real fact that they know that we deport so darned few (and if they were caught just on our side, its an inconvenience at worst). Up our rate of deportation and make the border crossing risky, and watch this level of cooperation plummet.
Believe me...requiring identification to be carried for one ethnic group is not going to fly, nor, frankly, should it. So, are you suggesting that everyone has to prove their identity and location of birth when they have contact with government agents, absent a criminal offense?
I'm all on board with checking the bona fides of people in custody for crimes (like, driving without a license), or who are caught in the actual act of border-crossing, but I think that the anti-illegal immigration zealots are taking a flying leap down the slippery slope when they advocate stopping and deporting anyone who looks like they might be illegal.
Mike
Yeah, yeah, you guys are all examples of purity and example law abiding citizens.
There's too much HATE in your posts.
You would probably do the same (cross the border) to feed you family if you lived in a country where there is no future at all and just up north there is light.
Check out the meaning of empathy in a dictionary.
Not saying the situation is OK, but don't turn into cold-hearted stone throwers just because they broke the law to get here.
There's too much HATE in your posts.
You would probably do the same (cross the border) to feed you family if you lived in a country where there is no future at all and just up north there is light.
Check out the meaning of empathy in a dictionary.
Not saying the situation is OK, but don't turn into cold-hearted stone throwers just because they broke the law to get here.
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