Law enforcement view on CCW

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Bunch , wedgie , whatever . Lets just keep the the topic centered . Around here all the LEOs I know are pretty much pro CCW .
 
I am not an LEO and have never been one on tv. I do have some friends who are LEO's and they are all very pro CCW for honest citizens.:)
 
I'm all for CCW for the honest citizen. Too bad it's not an option here, and will lead to one's arrest if caught.
 
That simply isn't true! In 22 years of law enforcement, I knew perhaps half a dozen that felt that way, and none of them lasted until retirement.

A very small percentage feel that, but nowhere near MOST!
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The problem is that there are always more popping up to replace those that don't last. I have a friend that was a 10yr sheriff's deputy and he says that he has seen his share of people strap on a badge on and all of a sudden their ego goes through the ceiling. They have a taste of authority that they would not have in any other field.

While they are disproportionately fewer than the good respectful officers, their action are remembered more than those of the good cops. It is a sad fact of life that people remember the 1% of bad things they see much more than the 99% of good things they see.
 
The ones in rural Missouri don't have a problem with it. I have an ex-brother in law who has just retired from the St. Louis Police department. Until he went to the acadamy, he had never touched a gun other than the service. He does not like it.
 
Here are the questions I would be asking any LEO who thinks ordinary "citizens" should not be allowed to CCW:

Knowing what you know, would you encourage your wife/mother to carry?

and

Knowing what you know, do you carry off duty,a nd would you encourage your fellow officers to carry off duty?

Why?



That quickly sorts out the hypocrits.
 
A good friend of mine runs a construction company that hires officers to direct traffic on a daily basis. I've BS'd with 10-15 of these guys while out riding to sites with him and the topic of guns always seems to pop up. We've checked in with a few of them on more than one occasion while we were returning from a gun show and they checked out the firearms we bought/traded. I have yet to hear a negative comment from an officer about CCW, I think they could care less one way or another really.

The one thing I do find interesting is not one of the officers I've met has been into firearms or recreational shooting! I'd say 1/2 of them didn't even know the model # Glock they were issued??? I realize that being in the law enforcement field doesn't mean you have to be interested in firearms, but some of these guys would look at something common like an AK that we bought at the show and say "wow, what the heck is that".
 
Let me add to my previous post that a couple years ago I worked on the political campaigns for the president of the local Frat. order of police when he ran for county commissioner, for the former sheriff when he ran for re-election, and for the current local state attorney when he ran for re-election. I crossed paths with MANY police officers doings this and have to say that at least 80% of those that I talked with were very pro-gun and in favor of legally armed CCW permit holders.
 
Irrelevant

The job of the police is to catch badguys, not to protect you, and not to take care of your civil liberties.

Now, a good lot of police can step aside from their job and say 'Wait a minute, I am an American, and believe in some fundimental freedoms' and then do in fact support your civil rights and all that.

Many times police come down on the side of 'we would like to do X, Y, or Z' and it is all about catching criminals. This is especially true of 'the brass' and higher leadership, who are often judged by how many criminals they catch per year, crime rate drops in the city, and such. They are not judged by how well they protect our civil liberties.

There is a reason we make them read Miranda and stop questioning you once you ask for a lawyer. Of course, if they didn't have to do that, they might catch more badbuys. Same with 'plain sight' search laws. Cops would love to be able to have everyone they pull over for speeding pop their trunk, and they probably would catch more badguys hauling guns, drugs, illegal aliens, bodies, underage booze, etc.

We had a stink here in MN where a city put up cameras to catch red light runners, with the car owner getting the ticket, and potentially jail time, with no need to prove he was actually driving. Due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc applied and the cameras were thrown out. (how does that compare to say a parking ticket? well, you don't ever get jailtime for a parking ticket, you just loose your driver's licence eventually...and driving on public streets is not a constitutionally guarnteed right)

Yet the police wanted to keep the cameras sighting how it helped them control traffic problems, and reduced accidents.

Another stink in MN right now is 'Lurking' crimes, where it is against the law to be partially obscured from view, etc. Basically it is turning into 'Walking while Black' where people are waiting at the bus stop, and police are arresting them for Lurking. Of course when questioned how the law stacks up against the civil liberties, and stuff like proving the person was attempting to hide from others with intent to do some harm or whatever, the police response from the higher ups have been "But this is an important tool for controlling crime!"

I am fine with police pulling over people with a broken taillight, weaving over the white line, minor speeding, etc and running them to see if they have warrants, etc. I am against pulling over people at random and running them for warrants.

Many police, from the police perspective, simply see more guns as more tools for ciminals to use to commit crimes.


Now, a good lot of police can step aside from their job and say 'Wait a minute, I am an American, and believe in some fundimental freedoms' and then do in fact support your civil rights and all that.
 
I would hope LEO's support CCW's in the hands of honest citizens.

Also, being a police officer has little to do with carrying a firearm. It has more to do with the authority you're entrusted with. I was under the impression that a police officer's firearm was there only as a last resort.

The one police officer in my town I've talked with (as he was opening my car door after I locked myself out) didn't know the model Sig he was carrying. I think it was a P228, but neither of us were sure. No big deal. As long as he knows how to use it, I'm fine with it.
 
If I get pulled over and I'm carrying I get told "thanks" and given a warning.

If I get pulled over and not carrying I get told "why aren't you carrying" and get a ticket.

Your mileage may vary but apparently my local LEO is very CCW friendly :)
 
LEOs & CCW

I've been a full-time citizen for more than fifty years.

It is my view that LEOs should also be allowed to participate in the CCW program.

I believe that LEOs have the right to be just as armed and protected as anyone else.
 
From the Second Amendment Foundation:

33. What do Police Officers think?

According to the 13th annual survey that was sent to 21,000 sheriffs and police chiefs across the country, by the National Association of Chiefs of Police, the vast majority of officers believed that citizens should be able to buy guns.

Responding to the question, "Do you believe any law-abiding citizen should be able to purchase a firearm for sport or self-defense?" Ninety-Three percent of officers responded affirmatively.
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I live in Washington state. I've been pulled over 2 times in Oregon. First time, got pulled over for ??? (possibly random search of out of state vehicle) Officer sees my CCW, immediately calls for backup. Backup draws on me through open window of cruiser. "Hands on the hood, @$$hole!" Crew of police spend 40+ minutes searching my car. Finally, he finds a bottle of whiskey in trunk. He opens it, pours it out on ground,throws empty back in trunk. Goes to cruiser, spends 10 minutes writing something after conferring with other officers on the scene. They throw my wallet back in my front seat and they tell me I can leave. I check my wallet and there is a ticket folded up in it for "Driving With Open Container of Alcoholic Beverage":cuss:
Second time, a few weeks later. I just leave a friends home in Oregon when I notice turn signal acting funny. On Chevy that usually means a burned out bulb. I pull into auto parts store. Police cruising by spots my Washington plates, backs up running over curb to pull up inches from drivers side door. Within minutes I'm surrounded by police from 2 different cities, 2 counties, plus state police. They take turns shining flashlights in my eyes and looking under (?) my car. Finally all but one leaves. She asks me what I'm doing there, where had I been, where am I going, etc. She asks me why I'm sitting in parking lot, I explain about light. She offers to look for me. Then she hands me a ticket for "Driving with Taillight Out" and leaves. Ironically, the friend whose house I was coming from had complained about the local police being so short of manpower that when his house had been recently burglarized, they couldn't send anybody out to look, just sent him a form to fill out and mail back in.
FWIW: I'm a middle age, middle class businessman, well educated, driving a decent car in a not bad area. I talked to a recently retired CHP who told me that in a lot of jurisdictions, "Concealed Carry" means you are "Armed and Potentially Dangerous." which would explain a lot. I don't even carry my CCW in Oregon anymore.
 
Many dislike it, just like teacher unions dislike private schools.

It lowers their importance.

Many police agencies seek to maintain the myth that they can or will protect you. 99.9% of people are law abiding, so the myth prevails.

If they show open support for CCW, it devalues the myth.

It takes something like the VT tragedy to see through this myth.

Most police like having a monopoly on the use of force. It is where their percieved power is derived from.
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I smell troll poop. I somebody mad at the ticket they got?

95% of my of my time is spent talking, not using force. I don't have a monoploy on force, what I do have is a monoploy on the legal power to drag people's tail to the magistrate and then locking them up in jail to wait for bond or court.

CCW is good, and responsible firearms ownerhip is good. It makes criminals less eager to commit crimes if they think there's a risk of getting killed.
 
In my experience the majority of LEOs in the Chicagoland area are antigun. However it the rural areas they are more understanding.

However if the majority of LEOs support CCW then why dont they support it nationally and campaign for it? I believe non-LEO organizations supported the LEOSA (HR 218) bill which gave them national carry. It seems that their seems to be a disproportionate number of articles in the papers where there is a quote by a local cop supporting anti-gun measures or advocating more gun control measures.
 
I totally got flamed off another gun board's LEO section when I tried to ask the same question. They accused me of "trolling," though all I did was open with the truthful fact that since no matter HOW good they are, the police will never be able to be everywhere at once, people need to be able to fend for themselves....
 
I have been "on the job" for more than a decade. I am very pro CCW.

And I use the word CIVILIAN.

CIVILIAN CIVILIAN CIVILIAN CIVILIAN CIVILIAN.

GET OVER IT !!!!!!
 
AFTER READING THIS POST:

I live in Washington state. I've been pulled over 2 times in Oregon. First time, got pulled over for ??? (possibly random search of out of state vehicle) Officer sees my CCW, immediately calls for backup. Backup draws on me through open window of cruiser. "Hands on the hood, @$$hole!" Crew of police spend 40+ minutes searching my car. Finally, he finds a bottle of whiskey in trunk. He opens it, pours it out on ground,throws empty back in trunk. Goes to cruiser, spends 10 minutes writing something after conferring with other officers on the scene. They throw my wallet back in my front seat and they tell me I can leave. I check my wallet and there is a ticket folded up in it for "Driving With Open Container of Alcoholic Beverage"
Second time, a few weeks later. I just leave a friends home in Oregon when I notice turn signal acting funny. On Chevy that usually means a burned out bulb. I pull into auto parts store. Police cruising by spots my Washington plates, backs up running over curb to pull up inches from drivers side door. Within minutes I'm surrounded by police from 2 different cities, 2 counties, plus state police. They take turns shining flashlights in my eyes and looking under (?) my car. Finally all but one leaves. She asks me what I'm doing there, where had I been, where am I going, etc. She asks me why I'm sitting in parking lot, I explain about light. She offers to look for me. Then she hands me a ticket for "Driving with Taillight Out" and leaves. Ironically, the friend whose house I was coming from had complained about the local police being so short of manpower that when his house had been recently burglarized, they couldn't send anybody out to look, just sent him a form to fill out and mail back in.
FWIW: I'm a middle age, middle class businessman, well educated, driving a decent car in a not bad area. I talked to a recently retired CHP who told me that in a lot of jurisdictions, "Concealed Carry" means you are "Armed and Potentially Dangerous." which would explain a lot. I don't even carry my CCW in Oregon anymore.


I HAVE TO THROW THE TOTAL B.S. FLAG!!

There are so many parts to this story that raise the BS meter to fully pegged it is sad.
 
Definitely not an issue in my jurisdiction. We tend to promote the idea. I've trained with cops and troopers from all over the state and at the academy (except Los Anchorage) and can't ever recall the subject ever coming up or being talked about in a negative fashion. I've never heard of PSEA (state union) or the Alaska Peace Officers Association taking a position on it either.
I did a stint as TAC officer at the Academy last year during gun week. So the primary firearms instructor and AST assistant instructors were there. It was talked about a couple times (or three) over dinner and drinks. Everyone was supportive of citizen concealed carry.

The only time there was public (or rather official) opposition to concealed carry, was during the legislative process for our initial "shall issue" bill. The only people I remember being against it was the POS Public Safety Commissioner at the time and a "can't understand normal thinking" senator from one of the bush districts that didn't understand the concept. The PS Commissioner even went as far as forbidding state troopers from teaching the "legal aspects" portion of the CHL class in their off time.

One of my best friends was rather pi$$ed the Commissioner's ruling, because he believed that if troopers were authorized to teach that portion of the class that they should be out there to ensure a degree of uniformity on the information being passed out. Afterall, they'd be the ones responding to SD shootings outside municipal boundries.

Of course a couple years later after an election and the appointment of a new PS Commissioner he called the new Commisioner's office on his lunch break (making sure he didn't pursue the matter on the state's time;) ) and requested he consider changing the policy.

He received an answer the next day. The ban was lifted.:D :neener:
 
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