I just picked up a single shot 223 and am getting stuff rounded up for reloading. I'm looking at brass and there is two ways to go commercial once fired or Lc once fired. Lc cost more had have to remove the crimp. Is it worth the difference. Thanks
Lc 5.56 brass vs commercial bass is Lc worth the extra
- Thread starter S.billy
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TrickyDick
Member
Alot of LC might have been fired through LMG's so it might be expanded more than usual and a bit more beat up, but it varies. i know its almost certainly true with the LC 7.62x51.
I would personally go with the commercial, whether it's 5.56 or .223
I would personally go with the commercial, whether it's 5.56 or .223
oldpapps
Member
Yo billy,
LC brass is consistent.
Is the commercial all of the same head stamp? What brand, this gets personnel as some like one brand and dislike another.
End point is how much price difference between the two?
For me, with all the same brand of commercial versus LC brass, the dollar difference is king.
Crimped primers are a one time problem and I have the tools to handle it, not a deal breaker.
But, what is your intended use for your single shot? Extreme accuracy? I would go with the LC. For general shooting and hunting, the cheapest.
Your are going to full length size anyway. Anneal first and go for it, don't care what the brass came from as once shot.
LC brass is consistent.
Is the commercial all of the same head stamp? What brand, this gets personnel as some like one brand and dislike another.
End point is how much price difference between the two?
For me, with all the same brand of commercial versus LC brass, the dollar difference is king.
Crimped primers are a one time problem and I have the tools to handle it, not a deal breaker.
But, what is your intended use for your single shot? Extreme accuracy? I would go with the LC. For general shooting and hunting, the cheapest.
Your are going to full length size anyway. Anneal first and go for it, don't care what the brass came from as once shot.
CLP
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When it was available, the LC virgin brass (unfired, never loaded) from Midway and other sources was great. Priced right. Consistent. Centered flash holes. Less capacity than commercial but no biggie- I never loaded high enough charges to take note.
This link is to Midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2317197849/lake-city-reloading-brass-556x45mm-nato-new-unfired
They've been out of stock over 18months.
Natchez has also been out of stock for a similar length of time I believe.
There is another place that has this in stock currently- the only caveat is that they don't guarantee all are from the same year. I no longer have this link as I recently cleaned up my bookmarks and decided my current inventory was enough. Maybe someone reading this can post it for him. Also, ensure your bolt action is stamped for 5.56. I personally wouldn't shoot 5.56 handloads out of a 223 rifle. If you're not loading to the higher end of published ranges it may not exceed the pressure limits of a 223 chamber, but how would you know what that charge is?
This link is to Midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2317197849/lake-city-reloading-brass-556x45mm-nato-new-unfired
They've been out of stock over 18months.
Natchez has also been out of stock for a similar length of time I believe.
There is another place that has this in stock currently- the only caveat is that they don't guarantee all are from the same year. I no longer have this link as I recently cleaned up my bookmarks and decided my current inventory was enough. Maybe someone reading this can post it for him. Also, ensure your bolt action is stamped for 5.56. I personally wouldn't shoot 5.56 handloads out of a 223 rifle. If you're not loading to the higher end of published ranges it may not exceed the pressure limits of a 223 chamber, but how would you know what that charge is?
ArchAngelCD
Member.
IMO I see no reason to pay more to buy LC brass. It is very good brass and I have some I shoot in my AR-15 but I use only commercial brass in my bolt action .223 because the bolt action rifle or a single shot rifle are not hard on brass and commercial brass will fire just fine.
This is especially true if the commercial brass is Federal brass (FC) because Federal is running the Lack City facility and much of the FC brass is made there too.
This is especially true if the commercial brass is Federal brass (FC) because Federal is running the Lack City facility and much of the FC brass is made there too.
.233/5.56 brass is plentiful laying on the ground. I can pick up 50+ pieces every range trip without trying. Not sure where you shoot, but there are plenty of AR shooters who don't reload and their brass helps feed my habit.
I have not purchased any .223 brass and I have approx 500pcs of mixed head stamp
I have not purchased any .223 brass and I have approx 500pcs of mixed head stamp
moxie
Member
Either is fine. I've used lots and lots of different headstamped range brass, including mine and others' LC cases.
I clean first. Spray thoroughly with One Shot lube. Then full length size/decap. Measure. Then trim, chamfer and deburr if necessary. Swage or ream primer pockets if necessary to remove crimp which it will be with LC brass. Then hand prime. Then charge, insert bullet, seat. No crimp.
I've never found the need to anneal. Yet.
All the brass I've used seems to work fine, assuming it passes a good visual inspection to begin with. Case rims can sometimes get chewed up a bit in the firing and ejection process, so look for good rims. Can't tell the difference between brands.
One exception so far. Brass headstamped IK 03. This stuff is from Bosnia and has very narrow flash holes that will grab and break your decapping pin. Trash them. Unless you are equipped to enlarge the holes. Then fine. The brass is actually quite nice otherwise.
I clean first. Spray thoroughly with One Shot lube. Then full length size/decap. Measure. Then trim, chamfer and deburr if necessary. Swage or ream primer pockets if necessary to remove crimp which it will be with LC brass. Then hand prime. Then charge, insert bullet, seat. No crimp.
I've never found the need to anneal. Yet.
All the brass I've used seems to work fine, assuming it passes a good visual inspection to begin with. Case rims can sometimes get chewed up a bit in the firing and ejection process, so look for good rims. Can't tell the difference between brands.
One exception so far. Brass headstamped IK 03. This stuff is from Bosnia and has very narrow flash holes that will grab and break your decapping pin. Trash them. Unless you are equipped to enlarge the holes. Then fine. The brass is actually quite nice otherwise.
If the commercial cases are advertised as one, domestic manufacturer head stamp, I'd shop price.
If the commercial cases are mixed head stamps, I's get the Lake City.
While removing the primer crimp is a pain, it is a one time thing.
FROGO207
Member
When I first started out on my own reloading I HAD to buy some 5.56 LC brass so I could say I had some. Now after 35+ years reloading I maintain a couple 5 GAL buckets of used brass. One is OF in reserve and one is use it till it goes bad. I would say it is a 50/50 mix of commercial and LC/MIL brass. The brass trees shed all year long around here. FWIW the LC brass MIGHT last a couple more reloads when FL sizing but I stopped trying to figure it out years ago.
I like both Remington and Winchester commercial cases but wouldn't buy mixed commercial brass. Too many brands and differences. I prefer LC brass to all others. That's all I buy is once fired LC. However if you do buy once fired cases do a close check of the inside of every case to check for case stretching marks whether commercial or LC.
LiveLife
Member
If you are looking for new LC brass, RMR has "unfired" primed LC 5.56 brass in stock with free shipping - http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/223-...3F243115E5CC0FB90173BCD306B79F.m1plqscsfapp01
oldreloader
Member
Case capacity is really irrelevant. Pressure is relevant. Heavier cases in your chamber take less powder to get to the same pressure. When fired they form to the chamber. That space is what is important. Heavier cases take less powder. Is there a direct correlation? One where the math always works? I doubt it, but the fact is heavier cases use less powder.
Wouldn't that depend on why the case is heavier?
Is it heavier because the brass is thicker?
Is it heavier because the brass alloy composition is different.
Is it heavier because cause head or extractor groove dimensions vary?
Being heavier, does not automatically mean that the case walls are thicker and builds pressure faster.
The only way I know or to determine if the brass is thicker is to check it's internal capacity. Take your fired cases, cases that have been fireformed to your chamber so all external dimensions will be identical . Weigh them individually and record. Make sure they are all the same length. Fill them with H20 and weigh them again, subtract.
If you're "heavier" cases have more case capacity than your lighter ones, then the case walls are most likely not thicker and will not build pressure faster. They would be heavier due to something other than case wall thickness.
Is it heavier because the brass is thicker?
Is it heavier because the brass alloy composition is different.
Is it heavier because cause head or extractor groove dimensions vary?
Being heavier, does not automatically mean that the case walls are thicker and builds pressure faster.
The only way I know or to determine if the brass is thicker is to check it's internal capacity. Take your fired cases, cases that have been fireformed to your chamber so all external dimensions will be identical . Weigh them individually and record. Make sure they are all the same length. Fill them with H20 and weigh them again, subtract.
If you're "heavier" cases have more case capacity than your lighter ones, then the case walls are most likely not thicker and will not build pressure faster. They would be heavier due to something other than case wall thickness.
Here is a prime example.
Here are two different brands of 300WSM brass, Rem and Win.
The Remington cases weigh less than the Win cases. Is this due to thinner walls or something else. Lets look at the case heads.
The Win case head measures .535, while the Rem case measures .526. This makes the Win case heavier, but does the Win case also have thicker walls? Duno, we have to take a measurement of the Internal Case capacity to find out.
So, Yes internal case capacity is relevant.
Here are two different brands of 300WSM brass, Rem and Win.
The Remington cases weigh less than the Win cases. Is this due to thinner walls or something else. Lets look at the case heads.
The Win case head measures .535, while the Rem case measures .526. This makes the Win case heavier, but does the Win case also have thicker walls? Duno, we have to take a measurement of the Internal Case capacity to find out.
So, Yes internal case capacity is relevant.
Absolutely, which just goes back to there is no linear mathematical way to know. Brass alloys do differ slightly. You have to check for yourself by loading and shooting them. Mostly heavier is less capacity. When they are real close you have to check. Happy now?
That said, we got off on a tangent. You can never leave it alone. I should know better to mention it.
If you are set up to remove the crimp then it's no big deal. Is the LC better than commercial and worth fooling with primer pockets. It depends on the commercial brass and how accurate your rifle is. IMHO of course.
But heavier cases are still likely to have less capacity and more pressure. There is obviously some crossover when weights get close. Most every one weighs cases instead of checking capacity with H20, simply because it is easier.
If brand A cases weigh an average 90 grains, and brand B cases weigh an average 105 grains, you can bet they have less capacity.
The moral of the story is that military 5.56 cases do not always weigh more nor do they always have less capacity than commercial .223 cases.
It is a common belief that is quoted here often, but it simply isn't so with .223/5.56.
If brand A cases weigh an average 90 grains, and brand B cases weigh an average 105 grains, you can bet they have less capacity.
The moral of the story is that military 5.56 cases do not always weigh more nor do they always have less capacity than commercial .223 cases.
It is a common belief that is quoted here often, but it simply isn't so with .223/5.56.
Walkalong said:
That's a pretty big spread there, 90 -105gr. Ever seen any brass with that much variation? Me neither!
...But if you look at the chart posted above you will see brass (PMP)weighing 104.5gr having more case capacity(29.9) than FNM weighing in at 97.3gr have less capacity (29.8). But thats only a 7 grain difference, you are looking at 15 grains or more in a 223 sized case. Never seen it, doubt I ever will. YMMV
I have seen 90 Gr .223 brass as well as 105 Gr .223 brass. I posted the largest difference I have seen to make a point.
I simply do not believe the process of whoever says that 105 Gr brass had more capacity than that 97 Gr brass. Water is a poor way to measure capacity.
I simply do not give it much credence. YMMV
My point that military .223/5,56 brass doesn't always weigh more or have less capacity than commercial brass is still true, whether one believes the water test or not. Evidently you think it is sacred. I do not.
The statement that it has
I simply do not believe the process of whoever says that 105 Gr brass had more capacity than that 97 Gr brass. Water is a poor way to measure capacity.
I simply do not give it much credence. YMMV
My point that military .223/5,56 brass doesn't always weigh more or have less capacity than commercial brass is still true, whether one believes the water test or not. Evidently you think it is sacred. I do not.
The statement that it has
is simply not correct. It overlaps. That was my original point. I used weight as an example, and, as usual, you took exception to it.
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