Lead Bullet hardness question

[BigBore45]

So i just came across 300lbs of pure lead. even checked out on the lee BHN tester. I was wondering if i could get away with mixing in magnum shot i have and never use or a 40:1 mix of 95/5 tin/ani solder to shoot in a 45 acp and 45 colt at around 900 fps??

i can lee alox them or powder coat them. not gonna use a hard lube and sizer on these.

have always used 50:50 lead/wheel weights for this but the wheel weights are drying up fast...

 

[ReloaderFred]

The magnum shot probably has about 4% Antimony in it, but probably no Tin. The Tin makes the alloy flow better and you get better mold fill out with about 1-2% Tin in the mix. For what you want to do with it, a BHN of 10 to 12 is about ideal, so depending on how pure the lead is, and the amount of magnum shot you have, you should be able to get pretty close to that.

By the way, I use Magma lube almost exclusively for handgun bullets and my leading is practically non-existent. Some people say it isn't any good, due to being a hard lube, but after about 150,000 bullets lubed with it, I'll happily continue to use it.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[BigBore45]

To start with I was gonna go 20lb pure lead too 1lb 95/5 solder and 20lb magnum lead shot, might mimic 1:30-1:25. See how that turns out, might do a test batch. one air cooled the other water dropped see where they are bhn wise in a week. I would take 8-12 bhn. I prefer 9-10 for my loads but I'm a cheap @$$ so the less hardening alloy I use the better.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

To be honest i like 9- 10 bhn on 45 because they are a low pressure round and obturation is much easier to achieve with a softer lead.

If your using alox make sure you bell enough to keep from scraping it off. Just not too much or you will have a bulge below your taper crimp ( if your using one) and it may not pass the plunk test ( pretty sure you know this already...but thought someone newer to reloading or casting may not).













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[BigBore45]

Thanks for the info

I was gonna go 20lb pure lead---20lb magnum lead shot----1lb 95/5 solder

If i did my weight and figures right the above combo should yield

2.5% antimony---2.5% Tin----------95% lead

the antimony figure is off the shot bag at 5% so cut in half with my mix.

so that should drop close to electrotype lead around 12 BHN with a trace of Arsenic of course from the shot. so should be able to heat treat with the antimony and arsenic.

If anyone disagrees i would like to know before i get to it.

I will post results when i get them.

 

[lightman]

In my opinion, fit trumps hardness. Slug your bore and size or choose a bullet .001 or .002 larger than bore diameter. As to alloy, Reloaderfred pretty much nailed it. If you cruse over to the CastBoolit forum there is an alloy calculator that you can download. Its basically plug and play and works really well.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Thanks for the info

I was gonna go 20lb pure lead---20lb magnum lead shot----1lb 95/5 solder

If i did my weight and figures right the above combo should yield

2.5% antimony---2.5% Tin----------95% lead

the antimony figure is off the shot bag at 5% so cut in half with my mix.

so that should drop close to electrotype lead around 12 BHN with a trace of Arsenic of course from the shot. so should be able to heat treat with the antimony and arsenic.

If anyone disagrees i would like to know before i get to it.

I will post results when i get them.

Your total weight will yield 41# if im reading you correct. 20 hard shot, 20 pure, and 1 tin solder. If your ocd like me take a lb of pure lead out of the mix to get closer to the 2.5% Right now your tin mix will be closer to 2.3% tin.

When doing the math on a 40-1 your 1 must be a part of the 40 and not in addition. Common math error.

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[blue32]

Contrary to what most people experience, hardness has been more an issue than fit for me. I shoot lots of 45 auto around 10bhn with no problems. I get leading with all of the commercial cast. I would add some tin and cast a few before trying to increase the hardness.

 

[BigBore45]

well i took a jump over to cast boolits forum. found a calculator for this, dunno how well it works but i came up with this.

80:1 lead-/-95/5 solder .............1.17% tin---.06% antimony-----98.8% lead

mix that in at 4:1 above mix( 80:1) 4lb/1lb magnum shot 5% antimony.............. ---95% lead---- trace of arsenic.


final lead alloy:
Mixed Alloy
Tin = 0.94%
Antimony = 1.05%
Lead = 98.1%
Weight (lbs) = 5

the calculator gave me 9.8 BHN with ability to water quench if desired.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Water quenching shouldn't be necessary for the .45 acp. It's one of the most forgiving rounds to load, especially with soft cast bullets.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[BigBore45]

i wont quench for the 45 acp. but if i wanna run some ruger only 45 colt out of my blackhawk or Win 94 i would quench them.

Think that low amount of tin is going to give me good mold fill?

Also what kinda shrinkage am i looking at?

Not really new to casting but just never had to change/mix lead until now. always had a supply of strait wheel weights until now.

i would run strait ww with rifle and mag pistol rounds and 50/50 WW/pure lead for 45 acp and black powder stuff.

i guess the days of WW is gone and im gonna have to come up with something else-- this is my attempt to save lots of time haha

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

i wont quench for the 45 acp. but if i wanna run some ruger only 45 colt out of my blackhawk or Win 94 i would quench them.

Think that low amount of tin is going to give me good mold fill?

Also what kinda shrinkage am i looking at?

Not really new to casting but just never had to change/mix lead until now. always had a supply of strait wheel weights until now.

i would run strait ww with rifle and mag pistol rounds and 50/50 WW/pure lead for 45 acp and black powder stuff.

i guess the days of WW is gone and im gonna have to come up with something else-- this is my attempt to save lots of time haha

I like 1.5-2% tin to get good fill. Add tin for better fill.

As far as what the bullets will drop in size, they should be pretty much the same as the COWW's were dropping out of your molds.

Weight might vary slightly. I have a Lee 120gr tc 9mm mold that drops a little heavy. By the time i coat them they are about 125gr but size is spot on.

Heres a good source for mixtures and hardness....even covers shrinkage.
http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

Here are alloy recipes for hardness
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm

Heat treating...
http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

Hope this helps.



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[BigBore45]

thanks for the links! booked marked that for future use.

i think i will be close to what i am wanting. didn't realize COWW only had .5% tin. my .94% should fill nice then.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

thanks for the links! booked marked that for future use.

i think i will be close to what i am wanting. didn't realize COWW only had .5% tin. my .94% should fill nice then.

Your welcome.

I've only cast around 25,000 bullets so far. A drop in the bucket to what many have done. But i would not have gotten there without the help of others. Its been a blessing.

Hope you have a smooth ride...enjoy!

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[Arkansas Paul]

Contrary to what most people experience, hardness has been more an issue than fit for me. I shoot lots of 45 auto around 10bhn with no problems. I get leading with all of the commercial cast. I would add some tin and cast a few before trying to increase the hardness.

It definitely matters.
I think what a lot of people don't think about is that a bullet that is too hard will lead just as fast as a bullet that is too soft. That's likely what is happening to you with commercially cast bullets. They're likely too hard and the low pressure of a .45 ACP isn't enough to make the base of the bullet grab the riflings. So you're getting gas cutting. That's my somewhat educated guess anyway.

As for the OP, I think your mixture will be just fine.
Please let us know what hardness it comes out to when you get done. I'd like to know.

Happy loading.

 

[41 Mag]

Tin 2.32% Antimony 2.07% Arsenic 0.61% Copper 0.00% Silver 0.00% Lead 95.0%

Weight 41.0# Est. Hardness 11.2

I was going to suggest looking over there for one of the calculators. I used one of the first runs of Bumpo's to come up with the above based upon what you posted. I wasn't sure just which solder you had, nor the shot, so just plugged the numbers in.

I have found this particular calculator to be pretty darned close to what it predicts if your using the same as, or close to the listed components. He did a ton of research to get the numbers that he has in it.

But like you mentioned, start with a small batch, then work it up. Sometimes I have found that you might have to tweak things a bit when going large. It doesn't always just work out doubling or tripling the weights like you would think. But that is where these calculators really shine, they at least help you figure what you going to end up with pretty closely.

Good luck and have fun. Be sure to post up your results as compared to what you use with the calculator.

 

[BigBore45]

Well i gave it a test run.

Results:
230gr lee TC

diam: .452-.4525
Weight after lube ( 2 coats of HF red power coating) 238 gr. (235 Gr. with alox.)
BHN 9.7- average of 5 tested With lee BHN tester 4 hours after air dropped.

good mold fill, hardly any rejects after mold was at temp.

Also cast a few LEE 7/8oz slugs
came out at .85 oz

Im happy with this alloy.