Lead cast lube for black powder cartridges

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Joshboyfutre

Joshboyfutre

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I bought some 250 grain lead cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Company that are made for black powder shooting. They came Pre lubed. I took some out and shot them with smokeless powder and they let it in my Barrel real bad but I was using CFE pistol and pushing them at about a 900-1000 FPS, I think thats why they leaded my barrel. I wonder can I shoot lead cast bullets with black powder lube using smokeless powder, namely Trail Boss? Another question on my mind is can I shoot smokeless powder rounds and then turn around and shoot black powder rounds as long as each is lubed properly without any issues?
 
BHN of your bullets? 12 or 18? Firearm? Cartridge?

Shooting smokeless then black powder may work, but not the other way around.
 
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Joshboyfutre said:
I bought some 250 grain lead cast bullets from Missouri Bullet Company that are made for black powder shooting.
Click to expand...

These? Labeled Black Powder and Cowboy Action?

I wonder what the difference is between those and the identical looking ones labeled as Cowboy Action, but not Black Powder.

If they are lubed differently they need to say so, and change the pics that both show the same hard blue lube.

At 12 BHN you may have pushed them a tiny bit too hard, but they may have been a poor fit.

.45 Colt? In a revolver?
 
Apologies for the lack of information yeah they're 45 Long Colt in a revolver. Taylor & Company Uberti Cattleman 5.5 inch barrel if it matters. I read somewhere that there cowboy action in black powder are indeed the same bullet with the same Lube. Apparently the lube they use works satisfactorily with black powder as well. I haven't tried yet. Ive got some of those pre lubed disks for cap and ball I'm gonna put over the bp sub and see what happens.
 
Those bullets most likely leaded because they aren't the right diameter for your gun. BPC lube works fine with smokeless powder loads if the bullets are the right diameter.
If you don't remove the lead from the barrel before your next session, no matter what bullet and lube you're using, the leading will just continue to grow.
 
8.4 to 9.2 cfe pistol in .2 increments(5rnd strings). I think the the last couple loads were just to hot honestly, but I want to make sure it wasn't the lube. Velocity for 9.2 cfe is listed at 1014fps and it felt like shooting my .44mag raging bull lol.
 
I got some rounds loaded with trail boss I'm gonna go try tomorrow. Was gonna load up some pyrodex rounds but I'm scared of the stuff after hearing the way people talk about it being on a battery acid level of corrosion.
 
Cylinder throats.... front end.
If they're smaller diameter than the barrel grooves, the bullet is effectively made undersize/starts slipping when entering the barrel.

Real problem with Rugers.
Not so much w/ Ubertis (that I`ve heard)
 
So I tried some of the Trail Boss loads out and didn't get any fouling. I think the CFE Pistol was just pushing them way too fast
 
The cylinder has two diameters, the chamber which fits the cartridge, and the throats in front of the chamber which fit the bullet. The bullet passes through the throat, into the forcing cone, into the bore.
 
Joshboyfutre said:
So I tried some of the Trail Boss loads out and didn't get any fouling. I think the CFE Pistol was just pushing them way too fast
Click to expand...
Ok fouling and leading are two different creatures. So now the question is did you give the gun a good cleaning between powder?
Looking at Hogdons data for CFE, the pressure is SAAMI spec , but the velocity is a bit lower than that given by Bludot, but not much in excess of what can be found with the original blackpowder loads .I have not experienced any leading with the Bludot loads, and the only lube I use is intended for blackpowder cartridge.
 
My cylinder throat measured out to approximately .453 so I think I'm all right there I loaded up 25 grains of Pyrodex and shot that and got a little bit of leading but not too bad. I think CFE is just too fast for this pistol. It's pretty much new so maybe it will break in, I polished the rifling a little bit with some J&B bore paste, hopefully that'll help a little
 
Joshboy:

Don McDowell gave you the most important piece of information. The bullets you were shooting were too SMALL for your revolver using smokeless powder, regardless of lube. They are also a bit too hard. If your chamber throats are .453, you should ideally shoot bullets that are slightly over .452 to .453". Also, with ,45 Colt revolvers, a bullet hardness of BHN 8 to 10 is ideal. Leading is caused by gas leakage past the bullet. Undersized, hard cast bullets will lead your bore no matter what lube. Get a proper .4525" bullet mould and some 20 to 1 lead/tin alloy and cast your own bullets. Nearly ALL commercial cast/lead bullets are too hard and too small to work well.
 
Bernal hardness of the bullet I was using is 12 oh, it didn't file with any of the other two powders I've used just CFE and only the higher velocity loads leaded. My bore size is 452 453 is the measurement of the front of the cylinders
 
If the throats are .453, and the grooves are .452, you are golden, and a .4525 to .453 bullet is best. A brinell hardness of 12 should be fine. If the forcing cone isn't leaded, the fit for the throats is fine. If the start is too abrupt, it can break the hold the lands have on it and skid a bit, causing leading at the beginning of the barrel. If the lands never take hold after that, it will eventually smear lead the whole way down the bore. This is typical of when the alloy isn't strong enough for the pressure/velocity.

Where was the leading at?
 
In the first 2-3" and the forcing cone. Keep in mind thats with max cfe pistol charge and a 12BH 250 rnfp (m.b.c.) Ive since tried trail boss and they shot fine. Shot five with pyrodex just to try and all seemed well. I have another thread I'm about to start about using bore butter on a hornady frontier lead 200g swc. Let me know what u guys think, it will be in reloading or black powder... Probably black powder
 
You can shoot 800-850 all day long with soft (30-1_[8] or even softer) bullets/fast* powders.

When you starting hitting the high 900s in-excess of 1,000 in a revolver using high velocity powders/no gas check....
... bump it up the Lyman#2_[15]


* like Clays

.
 
Joshboyfutre said:
In the first 2-3" and the forcing cone. Keep in mind thats with max cfe pistol charge and a 12BH 250 rnfp (m.b.c.) Ive since tried trail boss and they shot fine. Shot five with pyrodex just to try and all seemed well. I have another thread I'm about to start about using bore butter on a hornady frontier lead 200g swc. Let me know what u guys think, it will be in reloading or black powder... Probably black bore powder
Click to expand...
Bore butter is a wonderful patch lube, and works ok for filling the cylinder mouths of a cap and ball revolver, but as a cartridge bullet lube it sucks.
Best to use a proven bullet lube, SPG, DGL, or Bullshop NASA lube are all well proven, and readily available.
 
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