Lead contamination and our hobby.

[Top_Notch]

I just recently took up firearms after a long hiatus. Actually, I've always wanted to sooner, just never had the means. Now, instead of borrowing, I shoot my G***k 19 and Springfield 1911. (I'm trying to decide the debate between 9mm vs 45 and Glock vs 1911 myself ) Anyway, I shoot mostly jacketed bullets, always at an indoor range.

Now, when I'm done shooting I can blow my nose and have a black hankie. So, I know I'm breathing this "stuff" in. I worry about lead contamination of myself and clothes that come home from the range. I always shower after a range session and wash my clothes (or hands before I eat if we stop before getting home).

I'm curious, how prevalent is lead contamination from shooting? Is is a big problem or has it been overstated? Do you worry about it? Do you get yourself tested? How dangerous is it?

I don't expect exact answers as I'm not sure there are any, but your general thoughts about lead and our hobby are appreciated.

 

[cordex]

What you see in your hankie isn't just lead, Powder smoke too.

You need to find a better range. Right away. The range you're at doesn't have enough air circulation. Not good for the ol' lungs.

 

[Jim March]

Wash your hands right afterwards with COLD water. The cold keeps your pores closed.

If you're really worried, having your body lead level tested is easy. Most competitive shooters and/or heavy reloaders casting their own slugs do so on a regular basis.

 

[Correia]

I've only ever met one person who got lead poisoning from shooting activities. But he had casted his own bullets for years.

I don't like to shoot indoors, but that is because I have asthma anyway, and I have a hard time breathing after much time in an indoor range.

 

[dav]

And remember you can always wear a face mask. It's not actually done often that I've seen, as it gets too hot and uncomfortable.

But nobody ever minds. They all know shooting indoors is bad for you, they have simply chosen not to take all available precautions.

 

[T.Stahl]

I'm actually more worried about the passive smoking in the clubhouse.
But I do avoid the fine dust of the backstop and wash my hands afterwards, especially before eating or drinking anything.

 

[mattjoe]

What makes no sense to me is the clubs who have banned jacketed bullets indoors, requiring lead only to preserve their backstops at the expense of the health of the shooters. Of course, it's the shooters themselves making those decisions at their board meetings. It just doesn't make much sense to get a couple years more out of a backstop over the health of the shooters.

 

[Texas Bob]

Within a very few years look for the EPA to get involved or a ranges insurance rates will have another reason to go up. I know of one "LEO only" indoor range that gets visits from the EPA, only a matter of time before "private, open to the public" will have a set of reg's laid on them for "the sake of the children."

 

[36fan]

Lead poisoning typically only affects children under 6 years of age. During this time accumulation of lead in the child can lead to many health problems, but most noticeable a drop in IQ. Adults have little to worry about (excluding pregnant women).

If children are taken shooting regurlarly, they should be taken to a range that is well ventilated. They should also always wash their hands when they are done. The most prominant source method of lead poisoning in humans is from eating it (typically children putting old lead based paint in their mouth from old houses that have peeling paint).

I don't know why the EPA are showing up at ranges - they haven't set a MCL (maximum contaminant level) for lead, yet. Much less the EPA is a federal entity, and state level enviromental divisions should be making site visits.

 

[FireInTheHole]

The indoor range I visit occasionally always has this oldfart there who shoots soft cast lead blackpowder revolvers. Really pisses everyone off with the smoke and stink. Thank God the range has decent ventilation... I dont thin the led pisonin his aficted meh yeeett..

Although when I collect my brass my hands are usually completely blackened. 5 min with a bar or soap and some hot water usually fixes that though.

 

[Sunray]

Why would anyone shoot indoors without a mask? Get some surgical masks from a drug store or industrial supply place and forget about the lead/smoke.
"...Adults have little to worry about..." That's not true. Especially if you're rolling your own cast bullets AND shooting inside. Shot with a guy long ago who had to quit for several months to clear out his blood. He was casting his own bullets inside with squat ventilation and we shot inside and he had some work related contamination too. It does take a while and most doctors do not have the facilities to check for lead.

 

[.45&TKD]

Are indoor ranges dangerous for lactating women?

 

[Sisco]

I have an uncle who's been casting and shooting lead bullets for over forty years. I asked him the other day if he ever had his lead levels checked, he said he did everytime he had a physical and they were always normal.
As said before, wash your hands after shooting, reloading or handling lead.

 

[The Reaper]

First off lead poisoning can kill you. So is lead dangerous, yes.

With basic precautions you can enjoy shooting sports without fears of lead poisoning.

Shooting range precautions:

Do not "broom" the concrete range floor. This raises the dust and particulate lead into the air so you can breath it. Not good.

Do not eat, drink, smoke or put anything in your mouth until after you have washed up after shooting. The most common way for lead to enter an adult's system is through ingestion.

Try to shoot in a well ventilated range. Not always possible so we work with what we have.

After the range session:

Wash with COLD water after shooting. Wash off all exposed areas, your face, neck arms hands etc. For this reason I always recommend a long sleeved shirt and no shorts when shooting.

Take the range clothes and put them in the laundry.

Clean off your range bag. Watch where you set this bag. You probably put it on the floor or on shooting station at the range. Don't put it on your kitchen couter for example.

Most ranges have sticky mats at the exit so use them. If not just rinse your shoes off if you want. Not really a big deal though.

Cleaning precautions:

Do not eat, drink, smoke or put anything in your mouth until after you have washed up after cleaning. The most common way for lead to enter an adult's system is through ingestion.

Do not clean firearms in areas where you eat or prepare food. Not always possible so use newspaper and other covers to protect the area.

People who should not go to ranges:

Children under 7 years old.
Pregnant or lactating women who can pass lead to their babies.

The lead can have very bad effects on children as mentioned in posts above.

Top_Notch
The black you blow out of your nose is all the crap in the air not just lead. The range needs better ventilation, but that is not always under your control.

Unless you are on a "hot" range as a full time job you probably won't have a problem as a shooter. Now casting lead bullets is a whole other ball game and you really need to take a bunch of precautions.

I've spent a lot of time on "hot" ranges as a shooter and Range Officer. I had my lead level tested just to check it out. It was a trace amount, the doc said that was fine.

The EPA issued a Best Management Practices (BMP) in 2003. You can submit your range under the program and the EPA will issue a letter of compliance. Basically, the EPA doesn't want to be dragged into fights where neighbors are trying to close a range using lead as a issue.

Have fun shooting.
-Scott-

 

[fred in nc]

The fact is the significant component that exposes people to lead is the primer, not the projectile, as was proven by a researcher in Australia who found that the lead in the blood of shooter/reloaders was rich in lead isotopes originating in North America but relatively low in isotopes native to Australia. Primers mostly come from North America; most Aussie reloaders use domestic bullets. Lead in primers is from lead styphnate, the load salt of a first cousin of picric acid. Ventilation is the key to limiting exposure, though good personal cleanliness & frequent handwashing helps.

I chatted with an engineer for Winchester. He feels that non-lead primers will be develped to the point that reloaders will have reliable ones in about a decade. There is commercial non-lead-primed ammo today but it is mostly gallery & target loads; it is good, safe, and reliable at least used fresh. The key to manufacture is low controlled humidity during loading. Moisture sensitivity is the current barrier for the handloader and it remains to be worked out. Just picture some doofus "drying out about a thousand primers in his wife's gas oven in the kitchen at home & you'll get the idea.

It will come: the driving force is the US military under pressure to limit its contamination of the environment ith lead. Meanwhile, shoot where the ventilation is good, keep your equipment clean, and wash your hands.

 

[hansolo]

"Clean" Ammo

Several posters here seem to be highly educated on this subject.
So....what are your thoughts on the new "Nontox" Sellier&Bellot ammo and/or Winchester "Winclean"?

I usually shoot outdoors(factory FMJ/JHP 9mm/.38 Special and Russian 7.62X39), and want to minimize exposure to bad things; I'm thinking the Wolf Ammo powder may not be too healthy to breath

Thanks!

 

[Jim March]

FireInTheHole: COLD WATER. Hot water opens the pores and the lead rushes in.

Well, the residue from the gunpowder is pretty harmless, so the soot of cheap stuff like Wolf isn't as nasty as it looks. As stated, the primers are the big problem. Driving soft-cast lead ahead of too strong a charge will burn away the rear end of the slug; most of it will then stick to the barrel wall but some will fly out. Most factory loads don't lead up barrels badly but any load that IS leading your barrel a lot is probably also sending a lot of airborn lead out, some of which blows back at you. Handloaders should be watching for this.

There's a kit available from "The Hanned Line" I think it is, that allows you to punch out disks of aluminum sheet from beer and soda cans and then punch them into gas checks. So once you have the tool, you have unlimited free gas checks. Gas checks act as a "heat shield" at the rear of a lead slug, which gives you advantages:

1) You can run a soft lead round up at higher velocity without leading, due to the "heat shield effect";

2) Accuracy can be better with such softer lead grades as the bullet fills the grooves better.

3) Soft lead at high speed can give a heck of a "splat" effect even without a hollowpoint. Run a dead-soft Keith-type SWC 158grain @ 1,400fps or better and the lack of a hollow won't matter.

4) If this understanding of barrel leading is correct and it's not "friction contact between bullet and barrel wall" that causes it but rather ignition frying the bullet's hind end, then a gas check is going to affect airborn lead to at least some degree.

Finally, we know that it's the cast-bullet people most at risk from lead toxicity. Is it possible that at least some of that is because these are handloaders running their cast loads too hot and tolerating the barrel leading that "goes with it", and breathing at least some of that lead at the range?

If so, a lifetime's supply of gas checks for the cost of a tool seems like it'd be part of the solution...?

http://www.hanned.com

 

[JohnKSa]

Casting lead

The problem is lead vapor.

That only happens when the molten lead is overheated. If the temperature of the molten lead is properly controlled, lead vapor should never be a problem.

Gas checks probably do reduce lead exposure to shooters. I think it's been shown that the lead from the bullet doesn't get into the air much during firing. As mentioned, it's the lead in the priming compound that is the primary inhalation risk for shooters.

 

[Jim March]

I think it's been shown that the lead from the bullet doesn't get into the air much during firing. As mentioned, it's the lead in the priming compound that is the primary inhalation risk for shooters.

John, I'm sorta calling that into question in situations where handloaders run cast rounds too hot and are getting barrel-leading issues. Where that is happening, I suspect significant bullet lead is getting into the air.

That situation doesn't happen very often with factory rounds, and I suspect the testing done to date has involved factory loads.

Now, I could be wrong, but...dunno, I think the above makes sense.

 

[lee n. field]

I'm curious, how prevalent is lead contamination from shooting? Is is a big problem or has it been overstated? Do you worry about it? Do you get yourself tested?

And see also here, for my lead scare
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45251

 

[newman32]

Thread has me thinking....Regarding the dust mask, do you think they are good enough, or is that merely a "feel good" thing? I only ask because those are good for things like sawdust and whatnot, but lead vapor? I just don' t know. I don't see myself with a full resperator @ the range, but I wonder what level of protection you really need to get to be really safe. I only go about once a month now, so I don't worry too much about it.

 

[jacketch]

I like to arrive at the indoor range as it opens (I usually go on Saturday). The air quality is always best then and there are fewer shooters. Quieter too!

 

[Carbonator]

Lead awareness has definitely been lacking for kids. Growing up I was mostly unaware of the dangers of:

shooting .22LR competition twice a week in many different ranges, some not ventillated

soldering ciruit boards and metal parts

handling lead fishing weights and biting them to clamp them onto the line

carrying Civil War bullets in my pockets, cuz they were cool

I did become aware and more careful, but not until after many years of unneccessary exposure. Last year I had my lead levels checked and they were within normal ranges. I'd like to have been tested as a kid though.

Mercury exposure is also a big issue. "Silver" fillings are quietly being phased out around the world because they actually contain @ 50% mercury.

 

[M67]

Lead poisoning typically only affects children under 6 years of age. During this time accumulation of lead in the child can lead to many health problems, but most noticeable a drop in IQ.

Wow. And I've been shooting since I was 2...

Is there any way of reversing this IQ thing, or should I give up all hope and just aim for a career in politics?

Seriously, I do wash my hands, and I do my bullet casting outdoors. OTOH I work with some people who can remember the "old" days when they used lead types in printing. Some of them talk about how they used to boil water for their coffee by placing the kettle directly on the molten lead. As far as I know, none of these people have had health problems from lead poisoning.

 

[JohnKSa]

Heck, Jim, I've never done any studies or seen the results from any that I can recall--so I'm really just trying to think my way through this--you could call it guessing if you want!

Anyway, I think most jacketed bullets--even many rifle bullets--have exposed lead bases. That makes me think that if the gases from the powder combustion are getting lead into the air from the bullet, it's going to happen on practically any high velocity bullet whether it's jacketed or not.

So, keeping that in mind and reading the information from the gentleman who quoted the Australian study is what made me say that the priming compound was the main source.

NOW, on the other hand, there are a couple of lead free ranges in my area--one in particular that I'm familiar with. They have a special rubber backstop to prevent the bullets from being deformed excessively and only allow lead-free primed ammo shooting jacketed bullets that enclose the base with the jacket. So, since they're not allowing any exposed lead on the base of the bullet, it follows that erosion from the combustion process must account for some lead exposure.

It would be interesting to find if someone has done a proper study to quantify the sources more precisely...