I am getting quite a bit of lead building up in my 1911's and it doesn't make sense. I am using a 200 gr rnfp which is cast to 18 BHN. I am loading it over 5.3 grains titegroup. This should give me just over 900 ft/sec. though I don't have a chronograph. They shoot pretty well in all my guns. I have loaded lots of lead over the years including for 357 and 44 mags and never had this much buildup. Of course with the 44 mag I was using a much harder bullet but I am not pushing these very fast at all. Is it possible that it is a problem of using the titegroup with this particular alloy? DOES TITEGROUP BURN HOT ENOUGH TO CAUSE THE EXCESSIVE LEADING?
Lead fouling in my 1911's
- Thread starter CZ223
- Start date
- Status
loadedround
Member
It is my opinion that you are pushing a cast lead bullet much too fast regardless of the powder used. As Walkalong stated, Titegroup is not the best powder for your bullet and I agree. Drop your load to under 800 fps and I would suspect your leading will cease. If you want higher velocities, go to a jacketed bullet, but don't stress your pistol with extremly hot loads.
Last edited:
stork
Member
leading
CZ,
Slug your bore. It sounds like your bullets are slightly undersized. They must be at least .0005-.001 OVER bore diameter. 18 BNH is on the hard side for volume target shooting. As was mentioned, around 12 is much better. the bullet base can obturate and fully seal the bore with the softer bullets.
4.2-4.7 gr of Titegroup is a well proven Bullseye load with the 200 gr SWC. At 5.3 you may be a little hot, but it depends on what you are developing the load for. If you're looking for an accurate practice load, I'd drop down to 4.2-4.3 gr with a well matched 200 gr SWC.
Other excellent 45ACP powders are 231, Bullseye, Clays, WST as well as a few others I haven't tried.
Stork
CZ,
Slug your bore. It sounds like your bullets are slightly undersized. They must be at least .0005-.001 OVER bore diameter. 18 BNH is on the hard side for volume target shooting. As was mentioned, around 12 is much better. the bullet base can obturate and fully seal the bore with the softer bullets.
4.2-4.7 gr of Titegroup is a well proven Bullseye load with the 200 gr SWC. At 5.3 you may be a little hot, but it depends on what you are developing the load for. If you're looking for an accurate practice load, I'd drop down to 4.2-4.3 gr with a well matched 200 gr SWC.
Other excellent 45ACP powders are 231, Bullseye, Clays, WST as well as a few others I haven't tried.
Stork
Thanks for the replies guys
I buy the bullets I load locally and 18 BHN is what he cast them at. That is what I have to work with. The bullets mike at .452. Oddly enough it seems like my two Kimbers are leading more than my other guns though, admittedly, it might just be that I shoot them more than the other 3. I think I might start by trying a different powder like American Select or 231. I can't really drop the load too much as that is what I shoot IDPA with. On that score, can some tell me how fast a 200 grain 45 has to be moving to be an IDPA legal loading.
I buy the bullets I load locally and 18 BHN is what he cast them at. That is what I have to work with. The bullets mike at .452. Oddly enough it seems like my two Kimbers are leading more than my other guns though, admittedly, it might just be that I shoot them more than the other 3. I think I might start by trying a different powder like American Select or 231. I can't really drop the load too much as that is what I shoot IDPA with. On that score, can some tell me how fast a 200 grain 45 has to be moving to be an IDPA legal loading.
ranger335v
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 3,797
I push very hard cast SWC bullets as high as 1300 fps with 2400 in both my .357 and .44 with no significant leading in either. Nor does my 1911 lead with "normal" full powder book loads but I've never chronographed it. It does require the correct diameters and a good lube such as the Alox/Beeswax formula.
Walkalong
Sorry to take so long getting back to answer your question. I had to clean all 5 of my guns before I answered. At first I thought I only had leading at the chamber end but, while there is clearly more at the chamber end, there is fouling throughout the entire length of the barrel.
Sorry to take so long getting back to answer your question. I had to clean all 5 of my guns before I answered. At first I thought I only had leading at the chamber end but, while there is clearly more at the chamber end, there is fouling throughout the entire length of the barrel.
Sounds like it started at the chamber end, which suggests undersized or too hard, and continued to build up until it spread down the bore. If it is undersized or too hard, dropping the load will not help, and could make it worse. Uping the charge, within safe limits, has a chance of stopping the leading by bumping the bullet up to seal the bore and stopping the gas cutting going on.
12 BHN will most likely cure the problem.
I still say Titegroup adds to the problem when there is gas cutting going on from either of the two mentioned possible problems.
12 BHN will most likely cure the problem.
I still say Titegroup adds to the problem when there is gas cutting going on from either of the two mentioned possible problems.
ljnowell
Member
I see some posters saying you are pushing them too fast, and I disagree. I push a Missouri Bullet 18bhn to full magnum velocities without leading problems. In my opinion, I would say you are using too hard of a bullet, and a powder that isnt the best for the application. Can you get some Missouri Bullets next time you need bullets? I'm not sure why you are stuck with those bullets for good.
Skylerbone
Member
+1 for Walkalong's suggestion of a different powder and bullet. 231 is the Grail for 1911s, TiteGroup is what I use for my .40 and 9mm defense loads as it pushes copper FAST!
Likely your local supplier has given in to the demands of customers (or his own fears) about soft lead causing every leading problem. I'm sure, though I've never visited, THR has suppliers for cast bullets that are better suited to your purpose.
I like Clays (4.1 gr. @ 857 fps from a bone stock SS Colt Govt.) as it is readily available locally and loads well for .38 SPL.
Likely your local supplier has given in to the demands of customers (or his own fears) about soft lead causing every leading problem. I'm sure, though I've never visited, THR has suppliers for cast bullets that are better suited to your purpose.
I like Clays (4.1 gr. @ 857 fps from a bone stock SS Colt Govt.) as it is readily available locally and loads well for .38 SPL.
evan price
Member
I load 4.7 grains Titegroup under a lead 230-grain for my .45's and it doesn't have appreciable leading. That gives me around 800 fps all day long (184 pf). I push 9mm at around 1100 fps without leading problems.
I use a lot of Titegroup, about 5 pounds a year, for my target ammo and I like it. That said, it is a hot burning dual-based powder (Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine) and iirc it has one of the highest concentrations of nitroglycerine in powder. So it burns HOT, which means it's probably not the best for lead loads. Again, I like it and I base my loads around it.
My thought is your caster is using hard crayon type lube, cheap stuff that looks nice in the box and won't come out of the groove or get messy in shipping- which is common. .45 acp is too low of pressure to require a high BHN bullet. Anything harder than wheel weight alloy is too hard for .45 auto, which is about 12 bhn. Combine too hard of alloy with too hard of lube and you get leading. The NRA formula 50% beeswax/50% ALOX is the old standard for .45 lube, but it will melt out in higher temperatures and stays a bit soft in the groove.
You could try a light tumble lube in ALOX diluted 50-50 with mineral spirits and see if that helps.
I use a lot of Titegroup, about 5 pounds a year, for my target ammo and I like it. That said, it is a hot burning dual-based powder (Nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine) and iirc it has one of the highest concentrations of nitroglycerine in powder. So it burns HOT, which means it's probably not the best for lead loads. Again, I like it and I base my loads around it.
My thought is your caster is using hard crayon type lube, cheap stuff that looks nice in the box and won't come out of the groove or get messy in shipping- which is common. .45 acp is too low of pressure to require a high BHN bullet. Anything harder than wheel weight alloy is too hard for .45 auto, which is about 12 bhn. Combine too hard of alloy with too hard of lube and you get leading. The NRA formula 50% beeswax/50% ALOX is the old standard for .45 lube, but it will melt out in higher temperatures and stays a bit soft in the groove.
You could try a light tumble lube in ALOX diluted 50-50 with mineral spirits and see if that helps.
- Status
